The volcano issue

[JosEPh_II]

Now if the Volcano Event does occur in the ocean tiles it would be Super if it added several land tiles with the volcano tile. This would emulate Hawaii and other volcanic formed islands. While providing new territory to discover.

JosEPh

 

[dusckr87]

Now if the Volcano Event does occur in the ocean tiles it would be Super if it added several land tiles with the volcano tile. This would emulate Hawaii and other volcanic formed islands. While providing new territory to discover.

I'm guessing only one tile will be created, similar to the "old" ones that happened on the coast.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Oh I'm positive only one is created.

But if the "event" could be altered for coastal, sea, and ocean tiles to spawn not only the volcano but a few surrounding tiles then volcanic island formations would be an added element. And lessen the out cry against the volcano event in general.

But only Ori or DH would know if it's possible I guess.

JosEPh

 

[ori]

"possible" - sure, not even that difficult to do it quick and dirty - wouldn't get many friends with that though. To do it properly quite involved:
need to make sure the adjacent plots are coastal or ocean (actually polar or notmal or tropical coast or ocean) then give a chance to be changed to land, if not make ocean coast, if yes recheck the adjacent plots to the new land and make them coast - make sure no sea based resources remain on land - probably spawn some fish etc. resources in the new coast to not totally wipe out sea life with volcanos - then make surer that the islands are properly recognized as new land masses by the game for things like trade routes, maintenance etc.

I have an idea how to do it, not sure how fast I'll get there...

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ori

On the other end of the spectrum could Erosion be implemented? Such as ...

Peaks -> Hills -> Flatland -> Coast -> Ocean

Note that Flatland to Coast should already be touching coast. We don't want random lakes forming in the middle of the land (or do we?).

 

[ori]

As I said, I'd much rather have the terraforming stuff outside the event system. But yeah it could be done. Lots of python involved - and that is what currently keeps me from just lumping global warming, volcanoes and whatever else into a terraforming python mod - it would likely cause performance issues that would make me enemy no. 1 around here

 

[Thunderbrd]

It would all be far more processable if it were a dll mod. But that stuff is waaaaay outta my league! Nevertheless, it warrants mention that if it were programmed in the dll it would process a great deal faster. Large Python can be processing time consuming.

 

[ori]

It would all be far more processable if it were a dll mod. But that stuff is waaaaay outta my league! Nevertheless, it warrants mention that if it were programmed in the dll it would process a great deal faster. Large Python can be processing time consuming.

I know, but my c skills are not sufficient to code this and troubleshoot it from scratch - I'll think about it a bit more...

 

[JosEPh_II]

Well it's encouraging to know that it is possible.

Maybe some young aspiring new modder will take up the challenge or volunteer to help. Stranger things have happened around here.

JosEPh

 

[Crusis]

Hawaii was built from undersea eruptions over tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of years. A mantle hotspot is pushing magma up into the crust, and as the Pacific plate moves over and past the hotspot the islands source of growth is removed and they slowly erode. The next island is already growing off the coast of the big island. Hotspot volcanoes also tend to be non-explosive, so the destruction of the surrounding areas would be a lot less than a plate rim volcano, which tends to explode.

The time scale of the C2C game would notice almost no growth to a volcano building islands from the hot spot, so a mid-sea volcano producing a fertile island is probably scientifically inaccurate at best. Strategyonly's idea of volcanoes around the perimeter of a landmass is most accurate. There is also the supervolcano to consider. Toba occurred 74,000 years ago, nearly driving humanity into extinction. Probably only a few thousand of us survived. It's very possible that a supervolcano could occur during the timescale of the C2C game. I'm not sure if that would ruin a game or not. There should be a volcanic winter for several turns, large areas near the eruption should be turned barren for a long time then slowly improve, then eventually the area should be exceptionally fertile. I have no idea if such a thing is possible or even desirable. Toba was the largest supervolcano eruption in the last 27 million years.

Whatever the choice, you guys have great organizational skills and are doing a fantastic job.

 

[ls612]

I know, but my c skills are not sufficient to code this and troubleshoot it from scratch - I'll think about it a bit more...

AIAndy was considering exposing the heightmap generated by mapscripts to the SDK a while back, in order to be able to do more things with terraforming. I don't know if he still intends to do that, but you might want to ask him about it.

 

[Cyrusfan]

Sorry to complain all the time, but maybe we should go back to keeping volcanoes in the territory of the player whose event spawns them. There still pretty frequent 2000 turns in on eternity, but my volcano spawns occur outside my viewport, so I never know where they happened (more importantly, the even reducing them to an obsidian deposit seems to trigger every 10-20 turns but I don't see where that happens either). This is more frustrating as there are two in my territory that never seem to go away.

Maybe if there was some way to limit them to one volcano in a given city radius/minimum distance between them?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

AIAndy was considering exposing the heightmap generated by mapscripts to the SDK a while back, in order to be able to do more things with terraforming. I don't know if he still intends to do that, but you might want to ask him about it.

He would also need to add in the plate tectonics information but in a more friendly way indicating where plates are colliding and where they are pushing apart. Then we would need to add how active of fast the movement is to better simulate where volcanoes occur, Southern Europe plate- African plate meeting is quite active. Then there are hot spots.

 

[Hydromancerx]

He would also need to add in the plate tectonics information but in a more friendly way indicating where plates are colliding and where they are pushing apart. Then we would need to add how active of fast the movement is to better simulate where volcanoes occur, Southern Europe plate- African plate meeting is quite active. Then there are hot spots.

Well there is also other types of plate tectonics besides making mountains (plates running into each other) or chasms (plates splitting apart) there is also fault-lines that go parallel to each other such as San Andreas Fault.

However moving entire landmasses in game would be crazy!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well there is also other types of plate tectonics besides making mountains (plates running into each other) or chasms (plates splitting apart) there is also fault-lines that go parallel to each other such as San Andreas Fault.

However moving entire landmasses in game would be crazy!

All of which I mentioned. Almost every map script has a basic tectonic function so that they know where to build the mountains. So each region (map term = plate in tectonics) is moving in some direction which should give us enough information to tell which edge of region plots are doing what to each other allowing us to name these areas in a way that can be used by events.

If the region is moving north then all plots along its borders are also moving north. If the plot to the north is not in this region then the type of plot this is depends on what that northerly plot is doing.

- if going north - then minor fault line earthquakes but no volcanoes
- if going south - then major fault line volcanoes and earthquakes.
- if going east or west - fault line earthquakes and some volcanoes.

At the other side of the region if the plot to the south

- is going north - then minor fault
- is going east-west - minor rift
- is going south - major rift.

Hot spots need to be away from the edges of the region.

 

[Hydromancerx]

This reminds me of Sim Earth and how it simulated geology.

That also reminds me. In a very old topic either in C2C or RoM/AND someone brought up the topic of sea currents and how they could either speed up or slow down water travel. I think that might be something we should look into at some point.

Same goes for air currents for sailboats and aircraft.

 

[ori]

Sorry to complain all the time, but maybe we should go back to keeping volcanoes in the territory of the player whose event spawns them. There still pretty frequent 2000 turns in on eternity, but my volcano spawns occur outside my viewport, so I never know where they happened (more importantly, the even reducing them to an obsidian deposit seems to trigger every 10-20 turns but I don't see where that happens either). This is more frustrating as there are two in my territory that never seem to go away.

Maybe if there was some way to limit them to one volcano in a given city radius/minimum distance between them?

The last thing is essntially disabling just with a lot more coding - so I am not going to do that. If there is consensus that they should go away, I'll just do that.
As for frequency: what does "quite frequent" mean? That can be adjusted. Also it should be noted that one of the reasons they are frequent in the early game is that we simply have way too few other always active events in the early game.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

... Also it should be noted that one of the reasons they are frequent in the early game is that we simply have way too few other always active events in the early game.

Which is one reason rightfuture and I want to look at the Stone Age events to see which ones can be used or converted to c2C.

 

[Cyrusfan]

When a volcano event is triggered for me (regardless of where it actually pops up) I get an announcement and a picture, so it's pretty easy to tell if it's a new volcano or an existing one. I think I've only seen "such-and-such reports increased (or decreased) volcanic activity" for other players, so it's hard to tell if they're getting a lot of new volcanoes or just eruptions from existing ones. When I see three or four of those announcements in a single turn, it seems to me the event (whichever it is) is firing too frequently. But a lot of this is colored by my own frustration at the two I spent most of yesterday staring at. Naturally, no sooner had I complained above, than I loaded up my game and they both went to sleep.

The perverse thing is I actually like the first volcano that pops up. +1 in any tile my lonely capitol is going to use and fairly often a free Obsidian? Yes, please.

 

[thecougarbear]

This reminds me of Sim Earth and how it simulated geology.

That also reminds me. In a very old topic either in C2C or RoM/AND someone brought up the topic of sea currents and how they could either speed up or slow down water travel. I think that might be something we should look into at some point.

Same goes for air currents for sailboats and aircraft.

Ah good old Sim Earth. I still pop that game in every now and again. It hasn't exactly aged well, but it's still an interesting simulation.

As for the other ideas of wind and water currents: both of those also influence climate an incredible amount. It would be cool if the mod tied the in-game effects (like increased or decreased movement) in with a mapscript that simulated rainfall and climate type.