What do you want out of life?

[rah]

A few extra years to enjoy the fruits of my life of labor.

 

[The_J]

I mean, sure. And I'm on record ragging against Phrossack elsewhere. But "Just be someone different, bro." as legitimate advice is pretty much hippie woo sold to you by the establishment. Structural issues converted to matters of individual effort and perspective, where the problem is how you look at it instead of what "it" actually is. Perspective does matter greatly, yet reducing an existential issue like Phrossack's to mere decision-making is a bit of a laugh.

Some of it probably is though.
E.g. he wants to have a carrer, but then says it's not achievable. Yet you don't see any specifics about it. I am sure a decision (like what exactly to do, or a commitment to an idea) is missing there, which would probably solve a part of the issue.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I mean, sure. And I'm on record ragging against Phrossack elsewhere. But "Just be someone different, bro." as legitimate advice is pretty much hippie woo sold to you by the establishment. Structural issues converted to matters of individual effort and perspective, where the problem is how you look at it instead of what "it" actually is. Perspective does matter greatly, yet reducing an existential issue like Phrossack's to mere decision-making is a bit of a laugh.

Ironically enough that attitude of "just change your outlook bro and it'll change your life" itself can cause massive suffering, can leave people feel maladjusted, can leave them feeling paralyzed or not "in control" of their own thoughts. It can be oppressive. If you can change everything just by pulling an imaginary switch, why aren't you doing so right now, huh? Why aren't you fixing yourself, optimizing yourself? Why aren't you a high-functioning overachiever, when really it is all in your hands? It leads people to blame everything down to individual failure. or some abstraction of it, like "well, your serotonin levels just aren't high enough, sorry". You're a defunct human being. And you're supposed to carry that burden alone, because the path to changing it rests in your head.

This is, imo, complete horsehockey. It's the ideology of self-enslavement. The worker that is constantly updating, fixing, improving himself, especially in his free time, is the capitalists dream. The patient that sees only himself at the root of any mental illness is the psychologists/psychiatrists wet dream. It means that neither he, nor his profession, nor politics, poverty, anyone or anything else are at fault for mental problems. Mental issues are no longer systematic, they're individual deficiencies. Support no longer comes from the society, group, family, workplace, friends, but from self-help books and meditation apps. And the most insane thing is that people champion this like it's the most revolutionary idea of the century, when really it's just repackaged slave morality (Nietzsche) updated for late capitalism with some asinine new-age yoga hippie self help positivity mindfulness bullfeathers thrown in.

/r/thanksimcured

I instead read this as r/thanksimcircumcised, not that anyone cares

 

[Synobun]

Some of it probably is though.
E.g. he wants to have a carrer, but then says it's not achievable. Yet you don't see any specifics about it. I am sure a decision (like what exactly to do, or a commitment to an idea) is missing there, which would probably solve a part of the issue.

Well, he pinpointed the issue rather clearly. There are things he can pursue that he's interested in, but the impact factor is too low to motivate. Self-motivation, when you've been compromised, is difficult to produce, and even the best therapy in the world won't change a thing unless the mind considers something worth motivating for. When your view of the world suggests that it is fundamentally broken beyond repair, a personal change of perspective can fall flat or even feel like willful ignorance.

Which is why even when I've been a dick to Phrossack I try not to change his view of the world and instead only his view of himself. He sees the two as intrinsically connected, which is maybe true depending on how you approach it, but IMO him not considering himself to be human garbage is a better pursuit than trying to argue that the world is his oyster and he need only reach out and claim it, and all he needs to do to make that happen is flip a switch and be happy/motivated.

Ironically enough that attitude of "just change your outlook bro and it'll change your life" itself can cause massive suffering, can leave people feel maladjusted, can leave them feeling paralyzed or not "in control" of their own thoughts. It can be oppressive. If you can change everything just by pulling an imaginary switch, why aren't you doing so right now, huh? Why aren't you fixing yourself, optimizing yourself? Why aren't you a high-functioning overachiever, when really it is all in your hands? It leads people to blame everything down to individual failure. or some abstraction of it, like "well, your serotonin levels just aren't high enough, sorry". You're a defunct human being. And you're supposed to carry that burden alone, because the path to changing it rests in your head.

This is, imo, complete horsehockey. It's the ideology of self-enslavement. The worker that is constantly updating, fixing, improving himself, especially in his free time, is the capitalists dream. The patient that sees only himself at the root of any mental illness is the psychologists/psychiatrists wet dream. It means that neither he, nor his profession, nor politics, poverty, anyone or anything else are at fault for mental problems. Mental issues are no longer systematic, they're individual deficiencies. Support no longer comes from the society, group, family, workplace, friends, but from self-help books and meditation apps. And the most insane thing is that people champion this like it's the most revolutionary idea of the century, when really it's just repackaged slave morality (Nietzsche) updated for late capitalism with some asinine new-age yoga hippie self help positivity mindfulness bullfeathers thrown in.

Yes. If you're "neurotypical," lacking or not being optimized in how you live is fine or, at worst, a new year's resolution that can be broken in February without any fanfare. If you are broken in some way, anything less than total optimal living is a heinous judgement of your worth and is only indicative of personal failure. The system is always working as intended. If you are unsatisfied, upset, or aimless, it is only because you yourself are the problem.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I mean, sure. And I'm on record ragging against Phrossack elsewhere. But "Just be someone different, bro." as legitimate advice is pretty much hippie woo sold to you by the establishment. Structural issues converted to matters of individual effort and perspective, where the problem is how you look at it instead of what "it" actually is. Perspective does matter greatly, yet reducing an existential issue like Phrossack's to mere decision-making is a bit of a laugh.

Burn-out is unrelated to work load. It is all about wrong and exhausting ego-ideals which externalize motivation in a way that it does not motivate but crush you. People loose the physical ability to lead their lives - just because they approached things in a wrong way, because they had a bad mindset. And this is not "hippie woo" but practical reality in the therapeutic field, which demonstrates how crucial it is how you relate to yourself and the world.
I am not going to solve his life, of course. I am just pointing out the relativity of his judgement. And that is a real thing. And the ridiculous thing is not so much me pointing it out but how easy people can forget the relativity of things as soon as they identify with them and they become part of their ego. But that is an illusion. It is relative. Get that, and you can be in the moment and just get crap done.

 

[Synobun]

Burn-out is unrelated to work load. It is all about wrong and exhausting ego-ideals which externalize motivation in a way that it does not motivate but crush you. People loose the physical ability to lead their lives - just because they approached things in a wrong way, because they had a bad mindset. And this is not "hippie woo" but practical reality in the therapeutic field, which demonstrates how crucial it is how you relate to yourself and the world.
I am not going to solve his life, of course. I am just pointing out the relativity of his judgement. And that is a real thing. And the ridiculous thing is not so much me pointing it out but how easy people can forget the relativity of things as soon as they identify with them and they become part of their ego. But that is an illusion. It is relative. Get that, and you can be in the moment and just get crap done.

I am sure that works for boilerplate mental health issues like feeling a little nervous when around others or feeling upset about stereotypical family strife, but I'm not sure it has much efficacy in more fundamental, existential concerns that underlie the very society you live in and which shape your existence.

I hate bringing up past sentiments in arguments but I can't take your claims of practical reality in the therapeutic world seriously when you've made a thread on here about how women are linear puzzles to be mastered and manipulated.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Yes. If you're "neurotypical," lacking or not being optimized in how you live is fine or, at worst, a new year's resolution that can be broken in February without any fanfare. If you are broken in some way, anything less than total optimal living is a heinous judgement of your worth and is only indicative of personal failure. The system is always working as intended. If you are unsatisfied, upset, or aimless, it is only because you yourself are the problem.

I believe my friend Edgar has the answers you are looking for. that sub really is a goldmine.

or listen to my boy Elon. if you wanna make it, just work 80 hours a week at McDonalds, success will just fall into your lap. of course narcissistic navel-gazing is essential, too

Burn-out is unrelated to work load. It is all about wrong and exhausting ego-ideals which externalize motivation in a way that it does not motivate but crush you. People loose the physical ability to lead their lives - just because they approached things in a wrong way, because they had a bad mindset. And this is not "hippie woo" but practical reality in the therapeutic field, which demonstrates how crucial it is how you relate to yourself and the world.
I am not going to solve his life, of course. I am just pointing out the relativity of his judgement. And that is a real thing. And the ridiculous thing is not so much me pointing it out but how easy people can forget the relativity of things as soon as they identify with them and they become part of their ego. But that is an illusion. It is relative. Get that, and you can be in the moment and just get crap done.

Your first sentence rings very true. Everything else though, I heavily disagree with. Seems like you don't understand Burnout or you're conflating it with something else. Burnout is entirely a result of stress, and stress is independent of workload, to some degree, but it is also caused by pollution, noise pollution, traffic, relationship troubles, deadlines, responsibility, bad working conditions, lack of free time, lack of social security net, lack of money and financial insecurity (one can have both, one or neither, actually, they're not synonymous), discrimination or harassment, the death or divorce from a loved one, chronic illness or injury, the list literally never stops and only expands.

Reducing burnout to just ones self expectations (btw, ego-ideal is a term I have never heard used outside of Freudian psychology, no idea where you got that from, certainly not from a 21st century clinical practicioner) is simply inaccurate, even though I do agree with you that they are one of the key factor, even the single biggest factor for young adults imho. also, the very act of changing ones self expectations is in itself a monumental task and not nearly as easy as you make it out to be.

 

[Phrossack]

I will try to reply to all this when I have time tonight.

 

[Farm Boy]

Pulled out some weed trees in the rain with Dad this weekend while the ground was soft. Took the better part of an afternoon. Didn't accomplish a whole lot, but it was something, and I got a nice afternoon out of it. At least got me out of the house and under the sky, which is a healthier mental place for me, usually.

 

[rah]

I miss doing tasks with my dad. They were a lot of effort usually, but it was time well spent together. Enjoy them while you can.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yeah, I hate being in the office. Like a lot.

The people/generation I get get is thinner than it used to be. Not a lot of prairie Germans of the ilk left. I worry a rather lot I'm socializing my kid for failure in a much meaner-on-the-surface world than I think we're fit to train him for.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

The problem is that people reflexively defend their ego. So the first step is letting go.

 

[Synobun]

Yeah, I hate being in the office. Like a lot.

The people/generation I get get is thinner than it used to be. Not a lot of prairie Germans of the ilk left. I worry a rather lot I'm socializing my kid for failure in a much meaner-on-the-surface world than I think we're fit to train him for.

If you can actually socialize your children to value family and familial experiences, I'd say do it. I envy relationships where a child would actually want to spend time with their parent, not out of obligation but out of genuine want.

 

[Farm Boy]

Poppa ranks me in that regard.

Is actually what made me think of this last week for the first time. I've never heard Dad lie. About anything. He's dodged questions before, but I don't think he has it in him. Kiddo got in an issue as school with his friends last week, and it seemed like the principle cause was having absorbed some of that feature from him. Both proud and sad.

 

[rah]

I'd spend the money to visit my Father for a week twice a year down in Florida. I miss those trips. We always had a great time.
He was kind of a hard ass when I was growing up, but once I had a child I learned to appreciate and enjoy him more.

 

[Gorbles]

Burn-out is unrelated to work load.

I see people agreeing with this and I just want to say: hahaha, no.

Burnout is due to a great many things (which folks have rightly identified), and there isn't often one cause, or even a shared set of causes that two people in the same office in the same environment might attribute to their burnout. But it can be incredibly related to workload, because while you can blame poor management, or other factors that relate to handling the load, poor management isn't a factor without the excessive load to try and manage (or have managed for you, in the case of upper management not helping). It's various things in tandem, and often in a way you don't typically account for (consciously).

We only have a (varying, but) limited amount of work hours in us, a day. We don't have 40 a week (which is meant to be up to, depending on the country, I think in the UK we average at 42.5 but cover it with "breaks" and whatnot). If you keep up that level of focus; that level of throughput, you will eventually burn out. Whether it's work you're giving yourself, or work given to you, if you make yourself deliver work 100% of the time, you will burn out. It's inevitable. You see this play out in other environments, typically in volunteer groups, or online communities (particular where there's a lot of unpaid work, especially if you're part of managing it).

To tie this back to the topic, because this is something I feel strongly about: what I want out of life is more of a respect for mental health (this is generally what I want out of everything: the world, governments of the world, people, myself, you name it) and a greater emphasis on its relative importance. Just willing your world to be better (as has been noted) won't cut it. That way dissonance lies.

To that end, I'll never stop talking about mental health, and while my ability to advocate it IRL is limited, I will absolutely shoulder any burden I'm capable of in spreading a greater understanding of it, and generally just being there for my fellow person.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Burn-out is unrelated to work load.

Your first sentence rings very true

I mean, honest question, have you guys ever had an extremely high work load?

 

[Hygro]

Every depression I escaped took everything. And if you need to take Ritalin just to surf then goddammit take Ritalin just to surf.

Ironically enough that attitude of "just change your outlook bro and it'll change your life" itself can cause massive suffering, can leave people feel maladjusted, can leave them feeling paralyzed or not "in control" of their own thoughts. It can be oppressive. If you can change everything just by pulling an imaginary switch, why aren't you doing so right now, huh? Why aren't you fixing yourself, optimizing yourself? Why aren't you a high-functioning overachiever, when really it is all in your hands? It leads people to blame everything down to individual failure. or some abstraction of it, like "well, your serotonin levels just aren't high enough, sorry". You're a defunct human being. And you're supposed to carry that burden alone, because the path to changing it rests in your head.

This is, imo, complete horsehockey. It's the ideology of self-enslavement. The worker that is constantly updating, fixing, improving himself, especially in his free time, is the capitalists dream. The patient that sees only himself at the root of any mental illness is the psychologists/psychiatrists wet dream. It means that neither he, nor his profession, nor politics, poverty, anyone or anything else are at fault for mental problems. Mental issues are no longer systematic, they're individual deficiencies. Support no longer comes from the society, group, family, workplace, friends, but from self-help books and meditation apps. And the most insane thing is that people champion this like it's the most revolutionary idea of the century, when really it's just repackaged slave morality (Nietzsche) updated for late capitalism with some asinine new-age yoga hippie self help positivity mindfulness bullfeathers thrown in.



I instead read this as r/thanksimcircumcised, not that anyone cares

Believe in good things and think less. Over thinking is a neurotic distraction from thinking more and better about better things. It will grind your depression into place. Just have good pro self pro social beliefs and find little ways to live them. Have other people around. Follow them when they’re good and don’t get tripped on when they are bad or could be better. And yourself for that matter.

If you have pride in all the ways you kept to a pure ideal and you’re unhappy let that stuff go. Tattoos won’t cure you but being anti tattoo could hurt you. Triple for drugs. (Not all of them). You never voted republican? Well okay don’t do that but maybe see their point of view for real real. Like Ditto the other way. Are you avoiding being weird? Be you. And most of all if you pride your uniqueness as you avoid following good examples cut that sh out and get regular.

Live, to feel good.

 

[Narz]

Ironically enough that attitude of "just change your outlook bro and it'll change your life" itself can cause massive suffering, can leave people feel maladjusted, can leave them feeling paralyzed or not "in control" of their own thoughts. It can be oppressive. If you can change everything just by pulling an imaginary switch, why aren't you doing so right now, huh? Why aren't you fixing yourself, optimizing yourself? Why aren't you a high-functioning overachiever, when really it is all in your hands? It leads people to blame everything down to individual failure. or some abstraction of it, like "well, your serotonin levels just aren't high enough, sorry". You're a defunct human being. And you're supposed to carry that burden alone, because the path to changing it rests in your head.

This is, imo, complete horsehockey. It's the ideology of self-enslavement. The worker that is constantly updating, fixing, improving himself, especially in his free time, is the capitalists dream. The patient that sees only himself at the root of any mental illness is the psychologists/psychiatrists wet dream. It means that neither he, nor his profession, nor politics, poverty, anyone or anything else are at fault for mental problems. Mental issues are no longer systematic, they're individual deficiencies. Support no longer comes from the society, group, family, workplace, friends, but from self-help books and meditation apps. And the most insane thing is that people champion this like it's the most revolutionary idea of the century, when really it's just repackaged slave morality (Nietzsche) updated for late capitalism with some asinine new-age yoga hippie self help positivity mindfulness bullfeathers thrown in.

I agree with almost all of this & yet it has an air of surrender to it.

If you're depressed you asbolutely cannot give up. Even if 99% of self-help/ted-talks/inspirational stuff is BS you have to continue to wade thru it & continue to try new things & new approaches.

It'd be nice if we lived in beautiful supportive environments but we don't. So keep trying everything you can, knowing most of it won't help.

It's no solace that one's suffering is "built into the system". Win in spite of the system.

Being a victim isn't acceptable.

 

[Narz]

Every depression I escaped took everything. And if you need to take Ritalin just to surf then goddammit take Ritalin just to surf.

I'd strongly recommend against taking amphetamines.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ritalin+depression+link

Coming from someone doped up on the stuff from age 7 and who later suffered depression at age 13 (more $$ for the phram, I doubt they planned it but I'm sure the ritalin to prozac pipeline certainly wasn't a problem for them).

Avoid amphetamines, SSRI's and alcohol if at all possible. Very toxic **** for your brain.