2020 US Election (Part One)

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm trying to think if I ever encountered any actual Warren supporters.

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I'm still rooting for Sanders and I hope he pulls off a hail mary but it isn't looking good. I do think he'd do fine against Trump but people worrying about that seems to have cost him his shot. I don't really think fundamentally he's doing anything wrong; it's just a weird moment historically and people seem to be thinking he isn't fit for the moment. Any other year and I think he might pull it off.

Then again it is looking like the youth vote will eternally disappoint which is bad for him and increases the chances that Trump will win regardless of who he runs against.

 

[Zardnaar]

Looking at the campaigns, it just feels like Biden got incredibly lucky. It seems he doesn't deserve his lead, because he didn't do all that much on stage. His campaign was light on policy and had no breakout debate performance. It didn't create any momentum nor any narratives for the media beyond "I know Obama". I don't know what happened backstage, maybe they did a lot.

I fear that can be very dangerous in November, as it's very similar to what Clinton did. Or past November as the democratic party then will have infights about policy since Biden "has no plans for that" nor "wrote the d* bill". Looking back, it might have been better for the progressive wing to go with a younger candidate since Bernie lacks the one argument that could sway Biden voters to him (being younger so that they argument is he can be an incumbent in 4 years and also younger in comparison to Trump).

And choosing a woman would have been nice. Maybe Klobuchar and Warren should have merged their campaigns pre-Iowa to push that narrative. But that's looking back.

IDK if his support was pro Biden or anti Sanders.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Nope they just need to be self aware enough to not piss of people who are inclined to support them.

I'm inclined to belief that their and your support has a ceiling to it, which comes into play whenever the topic might start impacting upon you or them.

 

[cardgame]

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I'm still rooting for Sanders and I hope he pulls off a hail mary but it isn't looking good. I do think he'd do fine against Trump but people worrying about that seems to have cost him his shot. I don't really think fundamentally he's doing anything wrong; it's just a weird moment historically and people seem to be thinking he isn't fit for the moment. Any other year and I think he might pull it off.

Then again it is looking like the youth vote will eternally disappoint which is bad for him and increases the chances that Trump will win regardless of who he runs against.

self fulfilling prophecies are a bit

 

[Timsup2nothin]

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I'm still rooting for Sanders and I hope he pulls off a hail mary but it isn't looking good. I do think he'd do fine against Trump but people worrying about that seems to have cost him his shot. I don't really think fundamentally he's doing anything wrong; it's just a weird moment historically and people seem to be thinking he isn't fit for the moment. Any other year and I think he might pull it off.

Then again it is looking like the youth vote will eternally disappoint which is bad for him and increases the chances that Trump will win regardless of who he runs against.

I think people were more concerned about down ballot effects than about Sanders himself not winning. Political people anyway. As to the youth vote...poor turnout there is baked in. "Traditional" Democrats always welcome it, but never count on it. This year is no exception. Sanders came in "ramping up" the youth vote somehow expecting that one segment to have expanded from 2016 to now enough to carry him so that he wouldn't have to broaden his appeal. It looks more like the youth gave him one shot and got tired of him.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm inclined to belief that their and your support has a ceiling to it, which comes into play whenever the topic might start impacting upon you or them.

You need to be careful with what you accuse people of IMHO. For example I got a used of being a fascist because I said I would have a beer with them. It's not because I enjoy having beer with fascists but to deradicalize anyone you need a personal connection IMHO.

Hell I'll have a beer (or coffee/water) with virtually anyone.

Yelling at then online isn't going to change any minds. Some people you can save, others you can't. Doesn't matter if that's depression, fascism, communism or something else someone is flirting with.

IMHO of course.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So, the latest in frivolous lawsuits from Big Donny Dump...

He is suing CNN for this piece which is clearly noted as an opinion piece. Donny Dump says that it is libel, because "CNN released the story (again, note that it is not a story) despite knowing it to not be true." Now, you may be wondering exactly how he purports that CNN "knew" it wasn't true.

Wait for it...

A reliable source TOLD them it wasn't true.

Who is this reliable source, you must be wondering.

Wait for it...

That paragon of credibility, the ONE...the ONLY...Big Donny Dump himself!

 

[Kyriakos]

When is the next debate? Should be interesting.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

When is the next debate? Should be interesting.

The 15th.

Unless someone gets through to Sanders I expect it to be Sanders hammering how Biden is a bad candidate while Biden talks about how Sanders is a good candidate but Biden is a better candidate. The Sanders faithful will come away convinced that their guy 'really took it to him' and Biden will then win all the primaries on the 17th.

 

[Kyriakos]

It should be interesting, given Biden is no debater.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It should be interesting, given Biden is no debater.

Depends on what you're looking for in a debate. This may very well be the first debate that draws an audience beyond the "politics fans." Politics fans love that "Warren eviscerates Bloomberg!" prosecuting attorney style. The larger voting public generally falls to the "aw shucks" debater that the politics fans think is a rube. We'll see how it goes, or if it really matters by that point.

Polling in Washington state conducted over W-F has Biden leading. Sanders needs to start outperforming his 2016 numbers, not just matching them, and in 2016 he won Washington by FORTY-FIVE points.

In Missouri, which was close in 2016, Biden is up by fifteen.

In Michigan, which Sanders won in 2016, he is down by eight.

If those numbers hold Sanders will go into the debate facing four big state primaries on the 17th...in big states that he lost across the board in 2016. This could be a very tough ten days.

 

[Patine]

Yeah, but unless you are the Russian or Israeli government, you don't get to participate in our elections. I have no objections to opinions that contribute to a discussion. I do not like posts that are merely divisive and hateful. We had too much of that in 2016. Am I arrogant? Sure. But I think less than you. The whole damn wold may suffer or benefit from our elections, but none of you have any actual rights to participate in them. Get over it. If you can make good arguments and actually discuss those arguments, that is just fine. You might actually influence our thinking like @Hrothbern does so well. You are good at presenting stuff but weak on actually discussing things. You do like broad sweeping conclusions without much actual evidence other than one or two long long sentences referencing history over the decades or centuries. That has been your style.

Canada may suffer from Trump, Biden, or Bernie; tell me who is the best for Canada and why. That's cool. Tell me we have to dismantle our current system to make you happy and I'll tell you get lost.

But, I can still make my opinions known all I want, on any topic in the world, including U.S. elections and how the U.S. political system can be improved (not "dismantled," as you disingenuously and slanderously me of saying). And I can even continue to freely do so on threads where you are posting, and even tag you, and respond to your quotes. And, unless my own government, my own Internet service provider, the NSA, Russian hackers, Anonymous, CFC mods, or some other force like that shuts me down, or you push the magic "Never Never Land Button," there's nothing you can do about it. That is RIGHTS - true Randian style!

 

[Patine]

Biden has the meanest online supporters on Twitter, Bernie and Kamala are/were a very distant 2nd. Hoping we get some full coverage of the recent rape threats, racism, and vitriol from some Biden supporters and official surrogates even, and soon, but I'm guessing we won't. Shame!

<Two Plaintiff Last Names I'd Have to Re-Reference> vs. AC/DC, 1969. A Supreme Court of the United States ruling that says performers are not criminally or civilly libel for the crimes committed by their fans that are claimed to be "inspired," by their performance subject matter, unless they personally and specifically incite a target, offer incentive and urging to commit such a crime, or contact said fan, personally or by proxy, to commit such a crime. I imagine this would protect Biden from any lawsuits, I'm afraid, as an evolution of legal line of thought.

 

[Patine]

I'm pointing to his typical stump speech activity that is absolutely "us vs the world" throughout.

Well, to be fair, he does suffer from the "Ghost of McCarthy," being brought out like a corny old Halloween prop to scare voters irrationally into believing he might as well be Vladimir Lenin, and not a Social Democrat in the European ideological sense.

 

[Gorbles]

You need to be careful with what you accuse people of IMHO. For example I got a used of being a fascist because I said I would have a beer with them. It's not because I enjoy having beer with fascists but to deradicalize anyone you need a personal connection IMHO.

Hell I'll have a beer (or coffee/water) with virtually anyone.

Yelling at then online isn't going to change any minds. Some people you can save, others you can't. Doesn't matter if that's depression, fascism, communism or something else someone is flirting with.

IMHO of course.

So you'll sit down with . . . fascists? Or people with otherwise extremist opinions, for the sake of deradicalisation. If I'm reading you right.

But anyone who takes a tone with you online is automatically bad and shouldn't do this? Why? Shouldn't you use your amazing ability to connect with people, instead of refusing to listen just because you think they're being mean?

I mean, this is respectability politics in a nutshell. People could say the most horrendous things politely, and you'd sit there and drink a beer. But someone makes a good point forcefully, and you ask them to tone it down.

 

[Patine]

Counter wokeness is important.

oh stop it lol its embarrassing

It hardly matters in the end. All Hollywood movies of the last over 10 years are crap, regardless. Hollywood just can't make quality movies anymore. Only pure drivel. I haven't been to a movie theatre since, I believe, Star Wars, Episode III, Revenge of the Sith in 2005, which was one of the last decent big budget Hollywood movies. I've seen many others on television and Netflix to know what I'm talking about, but I haven't been drawn to a theatre by one since.

Generation X parents weren't good with the No word though.

I had friend who was two years younger than me (so Gen X, like me) who had a son she refused to discipline, and was even defensive of him when others showed annoyance of his antics. He was a true demon child last I saw of him.

What makes you think that "only Bernie's revolution" represents the people who are interested in those things? There are plenty of people who want those things and have every reason to believe that they are represented by the Democratic party.

The Democratic Party of the United States as a whole, especially it's "Establishment," camp, is not nearly as stellar or commendable in policy as you give it credit for. It's made to look good in comparison to the GOP, but that's a flimsy illusion if you view the Democrats on their own merits and accomplishments, especially when put beside many (not all, but many) other liberal and progressive major parties in other First World Countries.

 

[Sommerswerd]

It looks more like the youth gave him one shot and got tired of him.

As the youth are apt to do.

 

[cardgame]

It hardly matters in the end. All Hollywood movies of the last over 10 years are crap, regardless. Hollywood just can't make quality movies anymore. Only pure drivel. I haven't been to a movie theatre since, I believe, Star Wars, Episode III, Revenge of the Sith in 2005, which was one of the last decent big budget Hollywood movies. I've seen many others on television and Netflix to know what I'm talking about, but I haven't been drawn to a theatre by one since.

98% of Hollywood movies, maybe. Joker was great.

 

[Kyriakos]

98% of Hollywood movies, maybe. Joker was great.

Imho it was just better than the other ones of recent years, but itself not that special. Personally I liked Bane (Dark knight rises) more, but only due to Bane being an insane thug with a funny accent

 

[Patine]

I'm inclined to belief that their and your support has a ceiling to it, which comes into play whenever the topic might start impacting upon you or them.

All political policies and platforms and ideologies' support has a ceiling, unless your plank is, "everyone gets to eat."