2020 US Election (Part One)

[Commodore]

Why did Wallstreet Pete and Cloudbootjar drop out after SC if there wasn't string pulling behind the scenes? Pete did really well in Iowa and Cloudbootjar was polling as a massive favorite in Minnesota. They had no real reason to drop out and endorse Biden before super Tuesday. Are we really pretending there was no "stop Bernie" activity behind the scenes?

Of course there is "stop Bernie" activity. As I stated earlier, he is an outsider in the Democratic Party and the DNC isn't going to cede control of the party to an outsider. Bernie would be better off trying to start his own party. At least then he'd make it to the general election, even if he would have an almost zero percent chance of actually winning.

 

[Lexicus]

Did it actually hurt her? Did it cause her to lose a share of the vote or did she never really have it? It certainly hurt her with Sanders fans but I don't know that majority of the electorate cared about the nuances of difference between her and Sanders. She generated some excitement but I think she never connected with those outside her progressive base, just like Sanders. I don't think it hurt her that she tried though.

I think she tried to eke out a middle way between Sanders and the rest, and it didn't work, and then she tried the whole "women are more electable, Bernie is a sexist" thing and that really didn't work.

Bernie would be better off trying to start his own party. At least then he'd make it to the general election, even if he would have an almost zero percent chance of actually winning.

The only person who'd be better off if Bernie started his own party would be Trump. And well you know it.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Her confrontation with Sanders was definitely a turning point in the polls and its hard to argue there isn't a connection. She was doing OK until that point though I think she had already begun to come back down in the polls by then. It seems like all the early polls pointed toward interest but not support for both her and Sanders.

 

[Commodore]

only person who'd be better off if Bernie started his own party would be Trump. And well you know it

I didn't mean right now. I meant for like 2024 or something. Bernie has already committed to trying to get the Democratic nomination so he might as well see that through to the end, even if it's been made clear he's not going to get a fair shake from the DNC.

 

[Farm Boy]

Shoes are finally solidifying on the change/tradition foot swap?

 

[Lexicus]

I didn't mean right now. I meant for like 2024 or something. Bernie has already committed to trying to get the Democratic nomination so he might as well see that through to the end, even if it's been made clear he's not going to get a fair shake from the DNC.

Meh, I think Bernie is going to be dead or semi-retired by 2024.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Of course there is "stop Bernie" activity. As I stated earlier, he is an outsider in the Democratic Party and the DNC isn't going to cede control of the party to an outsider. Bernie would be better off trying to start his own party. At least then he'd make it to the general election, even if he would have an almost zero percent chance of actually winning.

As I said last cycle, I think this was exactly part of the calculation that both Bernie and the DNC leadership made in 2016, which led to the Faustian bargain whereby Bernie was allowed to run as a Democrat. Bernie knew his message was doomed to be ignored if he ran 3rd party, and the DNC knew that Bernie running 3rd party was a potential spoiler. Plus Hillary needed a foil to turn her "coronation" into a legitimate primary battle instead.

Everything went as planned and everyone got what they bargained for (except Bernie's die hards)... until Hillary lost.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Meh, I think Bernie is going to be dead or semi-retired by 2024.

No way Bernie wins over AOC post 2024 anyway.

 

[Farm Boy]

Bleh.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Bleh.

Oh right she's the age of assclown /s

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I'm not what you call happy about it either. I really thought Bernie had a shot to win this thing. And I still think beating Trump in November is gonna be an uphill battle for whomever the nominee ends up being. But the fact is the voters have repudiated Bernie in a pretty big way and we need to figure out why that is and how not to repeat it, and how to capitalize on the majorities of Democrats who back Bernie's policies even if they don't seem to have been willing to vote for the man himself.

As leftists we should know that electoral politics isn't going to be an easy arena to succeed in. Bourgeois democracy is rigged; we know this. Instead of complaining about it and acting surprised we need to figure out how we win anyway.

Okay.

 

[Estebonrober]

I didn't claim that "the DNC wasn't choosing favs"... the whole point of an election is for people to choose favs isn't it? I asked for clarification on how we were defining "the DNC" for the purposes of this discussion. The reason I asked is because "the DNC" seems to be being a treated as pretty fluid blanket term for "anyone who doesn't support Sanders." What I got in response was basically a non-response, which I generally view as conceding the point.

So now you seem to be defining "the DNC" as "their membership" which again raises the question of who "the membership" constitutes. Is it the Democratic voters at large? Or is it the politicians who endorsed Biden? I ask because I went to a wedding in FL this weekend that was attended by an old friend who is a currently serving FL Democratic politician, and he raised a great point at dinner about the SC primary, Bernie's loss, and the ensuing complaints of his supporters. Essentially he pointed out that (paraphrasing) Bernie's loss keeps getting blamed on "the DNC" and "the establishment"... but wait... the SC voters are mostly black and they voted overwhelmingly for Biden... so since when are black people "the establishment"? Black people are "the establishment" now??? The whole line of argument makes no sense, unless "the DNC" and "the establishment" have simply become proxies for "didn't vote for Sanders".

But even putting that aside...In either case, again... who are people supposed to support, other than their preferred candidate? If people prefer Biden, why wouldn't they endorse/support/vote for him? I just don't see the reasoning behind the gripes being raised.

So I mean it terms of super delegate type level membership. The one's with job listings as DNC members and while I agree with you that voting preferences being what they are currently Biden is going to win naturally, it does not change the fact that the DNC has long loathed the progressive side of their party. they rightfully view them as anti corporation and rich donor which means they hurt the bribery part of the DNC grift and they (I believe wrongfully but clearly its more debatable than I thought 3 weeks ago) view the progressive part of their platform as unpopular.

I think Americans can;t help but feel anything that might make their lives better in a substantial way is impossible whether it be from the failures of implementing new programs or the @Timsup2nothin type level of disbelief that any of it could ever get the votes.

Black voters are very conservative in whats possible as well. Bernie would not be their cup of tea when Biden (ie Obama II sort of) is on the ticket. I'm reminded of the SNL skit with Chappelle and Rock after Trump one mocking all the liberal kids for being in disbelief about America putting in Trump. There is a real cynicism about progressive politics in the US.

 

[cardgame]

"The electability candidate" is actively telling voters to go vote for Trump if they question anything about him or his policies.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1237753197466456064

 

[Farm Boy]

There is a real cynicism about progressive politics in the US.

Wonder why.

 

[cardgame]

Because conservatives torpedo everything they propose and then people ask, "Why couldn't you pass any progressive policies?" and blame the progressives instead of the conservatives

 

[Estebonrober]

Wonder why.

Its pretty obvious why, but that should not be on say Sanders, Warren, or AOC. Inevitably the whole things taints them too though.

 

[Estebonrober]

"The electability candidate" is actively telling voters to go vote for Trump if they question anything about him or his policies.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1237753197466456064

That is from months ago, just fyi

 

[Farm Boy]

My beef with AoC is that every time I've tuned in she reminds me of a different NY butthole politician. She's young, assuming I don't die she's got time to solidify or dispel that opinion. Not like incumbents tend to go anywhere. Better opinion of Bernie or Warren. Bernie is timing out though.

 

[Estebonrober]

My beef with AoC is that every time I've tuned in she reminds me of a different NY butthole politician. She's young, assuming I don't die she's got time to solidify or dispel that opinion. Not like incumbents tend to go anywhere. Better opinion of Bernie or Warren. Bernie is timing out though.

So is Warren for that matter but there are a lot of up and coming progressives with the potential to win from Maine to California. Even Texas is on the table.

To some degree I think it has hurt Bernie that people were able to tie him to Castro and the like because Americans have no ability to nuance anything. Its all reality TV drama to them. That might be just my dismissive of the electorate side which is at high levels these days.

 

[Camikaze]

Of course there is "stop Bernie" activity. As I stated earlier, he is an outsider in the Democratic Party and the DNC isn't going to cede control of the party to an outsider.

The chief "stop Bernie" activity has been people voting for Biden.

Other "stop Bernie" activity includes candidates with no path to the nomination dropping out and endorsing a candidate with whom they are most ideologically aligned, apparently pushed along in their decision by the suggestion of other people with whom they're more ideologically aligned.

It's not a conspiracy.