Ask A Red: The IVth International

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I don't think Cheezy was objecting to the questions you asked, just some of the other posts. And then you did admit above that you were trolling. That probably didn't help your cause, although I still think your reply made in jest was pretty well stated for a "non-red". Maybe you have a little bit of "red" in you after all. :lol:

EDIT: Sorry for the digression. I'll return to the topic by saying, thank you, Cheezy, et al., for answering my quesitons so far. I think your reply regarding Stalin was a very good one and seems very reasonbly well thought out. :hatsoff:

He quoted me.
 
My opinion of Stalin is multifold.I think Stalin is best understood as a unique historical persona, whose persona ought to stay historical. I do not think anyone should seek to emulate Stalin any more than I think anyone should seek to emulate Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan, even though one might marvel at their incredible achievements and their lives.

That suggests Stalin had incredible achievements, comparable to the great conquerors.

As per your comments concerning the Soviet (economic) system: it collapsed from its own inertia; it already stagnated in the 1960s. Combined with a defense budget of 25% it would have collapsed anyway. (An event, however, totally unexpected by Western powers, as a Marxist historian pointed out.)

As per purges being "necessary" in the 1930s: the military purges were extremely harmful to Soviet defense and they were (partially) reversed as a result of the catastrophic performance in the early stages of WW II. (Stalin's next planned unveiling a Jewish doctor plot, but once again WW II interrupted his incredible achievement. Ofcourse, antisemitism was continued after war's end.) Your reasoning that the 1930s purges were in any way necessary is in line with Stalinist propaganda; I note you do not provide any facts to support that.

Continue, Comrade.
 
That suggests Stalin had incredible achievements, comparable to the great conquerors.

As per your comments concerning the Soviet (economic) system: it collapsed from its own inertia; it already stagnated in the 1960s. Combined with a defense budget of 25% it would have collapsed anyway. (An event, however, totally unexpected by Western powers, as a Marxist historian pointed out.)

As per purges being "necessary" in the 1930s: the military purges were extremely harmful to Soviet defense and they were (partially) reversed as a result of the catastrophic performance in the early stages of WW II. (Stalin's next planned unveiling a Jewish doctor plot, but once again WW II interrupted his incredible achievement. Of course, antisemitism was continued after war's end.) Your reasoning that the 1930s purges were in any way necessary is in line with Stalinist propaganda; I note you do not provide any facts to support that.

Let me remind you:

Once again, it is not your purview to answer questions in this thread, or to respond to questions, or to post your personal comments or opinions.


That's right. Please do not comment or provide criticism, JEELEN. Thank you.
 
It's Saturday morning, the end of another long and successful day, but I wanted to take the time to respond to some posts.

What is the best way of educating the masses of what real communism is? For example. soviet Russia was not actually communist based on what you all have been saying, yet many Americans seem to think that it actually is.

Communism is best understood as the final stage of human civilized development, and communists as those dedicated to bringing that about. We have not seen Communism on a a national scale, ever, as communism demands a classless society and no hitherto existing society has achieved an elimination of class contradiction so take that as it is.

The best way of educating the masses of what real communism IS, is best put in the First Condition of Admission to the Communist International:
1. Day-by-day propaganda and agitation must be genuinely communist in character. All press organs belonging to the parties must be edited by reliable Communists who have given proof of their devotion to the cause of the proletarian revolution. The dictatorship of the proletariat should not be discussed merely as a stock phrase to be learned by rote; it should be popularised in such a way that the practical facts systematically dealt with in our press day by day will drive home to every rank-and-file working man and working woman, every soldier and peasant, that it is indispensable to them. Third International supporters should use all media to which they have access—the press, public meetings, trade unions, and co-operative societies—to expose systematically and relentlessly, not only the bourgeoisie but also its accomplices—the reformists of every shade.

I belong to several organizations that put out their own newspapers that talk about the things these organizations DO (picket lines, speaking at hearings, fighting utility rate increases, distributing food and clothing, organizing medical care and legal advice.

FYI: The USSR was a socialist nation, Belarus, China and Cuba and Vietnam ARE socialist nations. There are others, but the main characteristic that these nations all have in common is a government of, by and for the working class, which favors heavily the working class over its historic antagonists, the "owning" class. Also, in the case of China and Cuba there is a "ruling" Communist Party, with narrow, closed party membership guidelines -- uch that you must be 30 years of age to be a member of the Communist Party of Cuba.

What plans do reds have to help the masses differentiate between fact and fiction on these issues?

See my comment above -- the reds I hang with are busy busy busy building solid, lasting organizations that deal blows to the class antagonist without doing anything illegal or stupid.



Thanks for the link, very interesting data. However, my position stands, and it differs from other reds on this thread, but is common among reds of my stripe -- that he had very good theoretical treatises that I put into practice, and that, unfortunately, he also did things that cost lives. As I said before, if you like Jane Goodall, you have to like the chimps.

Another question for ReindeerThistle: You say that the purges saved the USSR but that you are not in favor of capital punishment. If there were a revolution in the USA and a true communist leadership came into power, would you be in favor of imprisoning those who pose a threat to the revolution?

Yes, but only those who committed crimes. That is an important factor. The worst thing a party in power can do is violate its own laws -- we would be no better than the bourgeoisie we unseat from power. Free speech and press will likely be allowed in a Socialist America, as will freedom of religion, the right to assemble and private gun ownership. All that would be decided by the government, which would consist of more than communist, BTW -- as what happened in China (and what still happens, the GCPCC or whatever it's called now is mostly non-communists) and Cuba does it as well.

Also what type of people pose a threat to the revolution? Would you say that a person who dissented against the communist leadership is OK so long as they do not seek any kind of political power within the Party? You also say "reformers" are among those who posed a threat. What exactly do you mean by "reformer"? Do you mean, for instance, a person who is simply trying to preserve capitalism by making "reforms" to it, rather than being a true "revolutionary"?

Lenin said the greatest enemy of the revolution was Oblomov, that do-nothing, paralyzing effect that complacency bestows upon those who think they are safe -- whoever they think they are, inside or outside the party.

Reformers may pose a threat if they possess political power within a communist party, but they are not necessarily unwelcome in society. See the 21 Conditions, the rules apply to members of the party, not to the general public.

I've heard it mentioned that it was more of an attempt to liquidate the kulaks as a class, is that particularly more credible?

Yes, more credible. In fact that is mentioned in the article Gary Childress cited above.

Do you have any idea how many children in the world die of starvation (30,000 a day in the year 2000) in a world that produces more food than it needs? How many Americans lost their homes -- and then how the world economic situation was turned upside-down when these American banks lost their solvency and had to be bailed out? Look at Cyprus, Greece, Spain, etc. Capitalism ain't doing so well, and we have not seen such grim days in a while. Who is doing the accounting for that carnage? Homeowners in Cleveland, e.g. were sold sub-prime mortgages to refinance their homes in order to make repairs (people who qualified for market rate loans, BTW) and then lost those homes during the mortgage crisis. Utility rate payers in NJ were awarded a $200 million rate rebate which was followed immediately by a $500 million rate increase -- how many people were shut off in the fall and froze to death in the winter?

41% of the victims of Sandy were people who made less than $15,000 a year. 67% make less than $30,000 a year -- which is effectively the poverty level for a family of four in NJ. But what are they rebuilding? The Jersey Shore tourist attractions!

So, yeah, Stalin liquidated the kulaks, but by the time Stalin was liquidating the kulaks, they were posing a threat to the food production in the USSR, as they were controlling a large portion of it at the expense of the nation -- and by then the collective farms could outproduce the kulaks, so Stalin said it was time to go. Incidentally, liquidation of the kulaks was a Trostky programme, but he wanted to do it at a time that the collective farms could not feed the country. As I stated before, I know WHAT happened, but since I was not there, I did not come off of a civil war, years of violent oppression and invasion by 13 foreign armies as the USSR had gone through, and I don't know how I would have handled it.

My opinion of Stalin is multifold...

I think Stalin is best understood as a unique historical persona, whose persona ought to stay historical. I do not think anyone should seek to emulate Stalin any more than I think anyone should seek to emulate Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan, even though one might marvel at their incredible achievements and their lives.

Well said.

I wanted to add (I know, I've had my say about Stalin...) that circumstances of history, not bourgeoisie appeal, dictate the course of action of a communist. A revolutionary does not reject a tactic on principle -- we reject tactics because they will not work. So, I don't think "Stalinist" tactics are quite the way to go, n'est pas? We have evolved.

In short, I am fighting for a world where people will look back at today with the same kind of awe that modern Catholics look back at the Inquisition -- "How could that have happened?"

EDIT: I also want to say I appreciate the early responses on the question of labor history writing. I checked the copyrights on the book series ReindeerThistle mentioned and it considerably predates the single-volume edition I read (Dray published in 2010). What I'm trying to figure out was whether the more mainstream popular histories of labor significantly diverge from the redder takes on the subject, or if this is a field where there is some consensus.

Good question, and I am sorry for not coming to this sooner. It is interesting to note, that of the two books I mentioned, Labor;s Untold Story is the least "red," and the UE, who commissioned the book, is far from being a red union. However, the title of the book suggests the take -- that this was the first time LABOR was telling its own. I did not have the pleasure of meeting him, but friends of mine used to attend classes form the former head of the Illinois Labor History society and his non-communist version of this history was spot-on with the communist version. So, I think there may be some consensus on this, after all. The US labor movement, once a militant harbor for revolutionaries of all stripes, has been pared down by bourgeoisie labor laws -- which were mostly written by lawyers working for the manufacturers -- that forbid revolutionaries from working in unions.

Clearly, we need another ways (or ways).

Thanks for the queries, all.
 
Thanks for the link, very interesting data. However, my position stands, and it differs from other reds on this thread, but is common among reds of my stripe -- that he had very good theoretical treatises that I put into practice, and that, unfortunately, he also did things that cost lives. As I said before, if you like Jane Goodall, you have to like the chimps.

You are welcome. So essentially if one likes/believes in Marx then one must accept the occasional Stalins that come to surface? What about "reds' who claim that they want to create a society devoid of unnecessary use of force and other perhaps utopian (for lack of a better word) things? Are they being realistic when they seem to make promisses that "communism" or "socialism" will be such a wonderful state of affairs for everyone always? I mean, I have heard it said more or less that we would all live much better lives (at least morally) in a truly communist society. Granted, perhaps one can have one's cake and eat it too by saying that so long as you cooperate and abide with the program, your life will be great. Or that in a truly communist society our fundamental attitudes toward things would change such that no one would even think about becoming a Stalin to begin with.
 
So, not only can I not respond to questions about communism (which, judging by the purpose this thread was created for, seems reasonable), but apparently you have the power to enforce bans on people you don't like for even commenting on things that are not applicable to communism? Or even asking (yes, a mere question) on whether the Soviets had a motive to kill the Ukrainians? Trolling might not be constructive here, but when you start trying to anesthetize the membership through oppressively strict enforcement of some arbitrary protocol, I start to think that something might not be right here.

These are not my rules, they are the rules that have been enforced since the creation of "Ask an X" type of threads, and have been the long-standing practice here.

Nor am I the one enforcing them. I am not a moderator, and I have no direct control over such things. But I am not one to immediately run to mommy with my problems, either. When you ask a reasonable question, we will answer it if we please. But when you provide running commentary, or answer questions for us, or engage in unsolicited polemics, then you have overstepped your bounds as a non-answerer in this thread. Again, not my rules. FYI.

Haven't I just pointed out that I asked an actual question?

The post I quoted and responded to was not a question, it was a statement. See?

There are plenty of other ways to suppress cultural animosities or nationalist breakaway groups than just killing a lot of people.

I quite simply don't care about your opinions, and this thread is not about your opinions. Feel free to share them elsewhere. Start any number of threads about any number of topics that arise here, but this thread is for questioning by you all, and answering by us. Nothing else than that.

That suggests Stalin had incredible achievements, comparable to the great conquerors.

Which he did.

As per your comments concerning the Soviet (economic) system: it collapsed from its own inertia; it already stagnated in the 1960s. Combined with a defense budget of 25% it would have collapsed anyway. (An event, however, totally unexpected by Western powers, as a Marxist historian pointed out.)

No it had not stagnated by the 1960s, during the 60s was its most comparable time to the West! If there was any time the Soviets could be said to be "winning" the Cold War, it was in the 50s and 60s. As I described, problems really began in the 70s (roughly paralleling the Oil Shock), problems of shortage and economic stagnation which had not existed before then. They might have been avoided if the shift toward consumer goods had been much better effected than it was; in reality, it was a half-hearted effort to begin with, which was further hamstrung by old-guard Stalinists afraid of something they weren't told to believe by their fathers. One Dimensional Man is worth a read not just to understand where our capitalist society's problems lay, but also where the problems in extant socialist society lay: people incapable of thinking outside their engendered little social boxes.

As per purges being "necessary" in the 1930s: the military purges were extremely harmful to Soviet defense and they were (partially) reversed as a result of the catastrophic performance in the early stages of WW II. (Stalin's next planned unveiling a Jewish doctor plot, but once again WW II interrupted his incredible achievement. Ofcourse, antisemitism was continued after war's end.) Your reasoning that the 1930s purges were in any way necessary is in line with Stalinist propaganda; I note you do not provide any facts to support that.

Whatever. This is not a debate thread, I don't expect you to provide evidence because I don't expect you to debate. If you wish to discuss this elsewhere, then you may initiate that discussion there.

Continue, Comrade.

As I said to Mouthwash, please restrict your posting in this thread to questions or follow-up questions, and refrain from running commentary or pure rebuttals. I'm more than happy to discuss things in other threads, but this is not a discussion thread, and the place for your opinion on these matters is not here.

This thread is for learning more about socialism and communism, and how socialists and communists think and behave. It has no other purpose than that. Things are going great so far, I ask that all of you respect this principle, which has governed the Ask an X threads for many years. Thank you.
 
Gary Childress said:
You are welcome. So essentially if one likes/believes in Marx then one must accept the occasional Stalins that come to surface? What about "reds' who claim that they want to create a society devoid of unnecessary use of force and other perhaps utopian (for lack of a better word) things? Are they being realistic when they seem to make promisses that "communism" or "socialism" will be such a wonderful state of affairs for everyone always? I mean, I have heard it said more or less that we would all live much better lives (at least morally) in a truly communist society. Granted, perhaps one can have one's cake and eat it too by saying that so long as you cooperate and abide with the program, your life will be great. Or that in a truly communist society our fundamental attitudes toward things would change such that no one would even think about becoming a Stalin to begin with.

It's more like "If you like Stalin's theories,you have to accept what he did,". Rather than my simply accepting that Marxism-Leninism produces Stalins -- which I also accept -- but I don't accept ALL Marxist or communist theory -- I tolerate those theories and if one of those other groupings wins, I will be the first in line to volunteer to build the socialist order.

Better, as a term, is always relative, but by no means do I endorse "perfection" for any system, since we are humans, and humans make mistakes. However, given the state of affairs under capitalism: high infant morality in sub-Saharan Africa, Asia, Latin America; global arming; armed intervention -- communists at least strive to do better.

Lenin himself, speaking of the errors of the RSDLP Bolshevik wing, said "It is not the wise man who commits no errors. There are no such men, nor can there be. Wise is the man who makes not such grave errors, and can readily correct those errors."

I don't think it will be "Follow us or die," but certainly those who exploit others for their own personal profit will be ar a distinct disadvantage under socialism. I also thnk peoples' attitudes can change, as mine did. I was a Red State Republican from a line that goes back to 1854 when the GOP was a elief committee arming and funding Jayhawkers in the Kansas war, so if I can be won over to communism, who can't. But that is a decision only an individual can make.

I don't foresee another Stalin in my lifetime. Mainly, because his tactis would not necessarily work in the 21st century.
 
Which he did.

Kindly name one. (Preferably comparable to Alexander or Ghenghis' feats, ofcourse.)

No it had not stagnated by the 1960s, during the 60s was its most comparable time to the West! If there was any time the Soviets could be said to be "winning" the Cold War, it was in the 50s and 60s. As I described, problems really began in the 70s (roughly paralleling the Oil Shock), problems of shortage and economic stagnation which had not existed before then. They might have been avoided if the shift toward consumer goods had been much better effected than it was; in reality, it was a half-hearted effort to begin with, which was further hamstrung by old-guard Stalinists afraid of something they weren't told to believe by their fathers. One Dimensional Man is worth a read not just to understand where our capitalist society's problems lay, but also where the problems in extant socialist society lay: people incapable of thinking outside their engendered little social boxes.

The oil crisis actually hid the endemic weakness of the Soviet economy by boosting oil prices. So the glorious leadership leaned back and did nothing. By the 1980s it was too late. You might recall that the USSR turned from a net exporter to a net importer of grain. (That in itself may not be meaningful, but it's symptomatic.) The USSR failed to provide consumer goods of sufficient quality to its own consumers. Shortage was also endemic to the Soviet command economy. The problem wasn't "thinking outside the box", as you claim, but that running an economy by 5-year plans doens't work in the long run. It totally ignores the demand side of the economy.

Whatever.

Good point. I am not discussing. I am pointing out factual inaccuracies in your replies to questions.

This thread is for learning more about socialism and communism, and how socialists and communists think and behave. It has no other purpose than that. Things are going great so far, I ask that all of you respect this principle, which has governed the Ask an X threads for many years. Thank you.

You're welcome. (I draw my corrections - not "opinions", as you claim - to your bold statements from the works of a wellknown Marxist historian. I'd be happy to refer some books of his. But if the purpose of this thread is merely to provide answers from the Stalinist catechism, by all means, continue as before.)
 
@Cheezy I think that's probably a fair and balanced ( :p ) perspective on Stalin.

I once took a class on the Soviet Union back in the good old days of college. My professor wasn't a Marxist but he thought it was important to get us a real perspective past all the preconceived notions we had. So he had us to a lot of re-enactments, for instance we re-enacted a purge, which turned out to be more like an aggressive job interview and background check than dragging someone out to the woods and shooting them. That was surprising.

Then one interesting thing he did was a re-enactment of the Party Congress I think the one in the 1920's following Lenin's death. Basically we were supposed to pick the path the Soviet Union would go down. So he divided it up into categories, foreign policy, domestic, industrialization etc.... and laid out the policies of each of the major candidates, Trotsky, Bukharin, Stalin, Zinonev, Kamanev and I think someone else.

But here's the interesting part, he omitted their names. So all we had was a table of policies which we had to judge on their own merits. So after discussing each of the policies we voted for the one's we liked and he tallied it up.

Then he wrote the name of the candidate we had selected.

Stalin.

My a vast majority, we had selected EVERY SINGLE ONE of Stalin's policies (except foreign policy, for that we had selected internationalism and Trotsky rather than Socialism in One Nation)

Needless to say that was eye opening.
 
Was there a motive at the time to kill the Ukrainians? No country (even a totalitarian one) commits genocide because they simply feel like killing people.
Moderator Action: An appropriate question

Was there a motive? I would argue that a deliberate killing is entirely out of the question if there wasn't any, because states (according to realist thought) are inherently rational actors.
Moderator Action: An appropriate question

There are plenty of other ways to suppress cultural animosities or nationalist breakaway groups than just killing a lot of people.
Moderator Action: This is not a thread for arguments.

So, not only can I not respond to questions about communism (which, judging by the purpose this thread was created for, seems reasonable), but apparently you have the power to enforce bans on people you don't like for even commenting on things that are not applicable to communism? Or even asking (yes, a mere question) on whether the Soviets had a motive to kill the Ukrainians? Trolling might not be constructive here, but when you start trying to anesthetize the membership through oppressively strict enforcement of some arbitrary protocol, I start to think that something might not be right here.
Moderator Action: I can enforce protocol here. This has been a long and informative set of threads Where the focus has been on asking questions and getting answers from a select set of posters. This is not the Tavern and staff has allowed the thread starter have greater control over the discussion. If you don't like how your questions are answered, then feel free to start your own thread on the matter and have as lively a discussion as you want.

It is not an arbitrary protocol, it is how all the "Ask a Blank" threads have traditionally worked on this forum. There are a handful of posters who associate with a particular Blank, who are then authorized to respond to questions from the rest of us who are curious about Blank. These threads are intended for us posters to be able to interview people we would not ordinarily meet and to receive unfiltered responses from them. Debate, snark, trolling, or whatever else you want to add into the list belong in separate threads.
Moderator Action: Yes.

Haven't I just pointed out that I asked an actual question?

Let me remind you:

That's right. Please do not comment or provide criticism, JEELEN. Thank you.
Moderator Action: The above are exactly the kind of snippy remarks we don't want in this thread.

These are not my rules, they are the rules that have been enforced since the creation of "Ask an X" type of threads, and have been the long-standing practice here.

Nor am I the one enforcing them. I am not a moderator, and I have no direct control over such things. But I am not one to immediately run to mommy with my problems, either. When you ask a reasonable question, we will answer it if we please. But when you provide running commentary, or answer questions for us, or engage in unsolicited polemics, then you have overstepped your bounds as a non-answerer in this thread. Again, not my rules. FYI.

The post I quoted and responded to was not a question, it was a statement. See?

I quite simply don't care about your opinions, and this thread is not about your opinions. Feel free to share them elsewhere. Start any number of threads about any number of topics that arise here, but this thread is for questioning by you all, and answering by us. Nothing else than that.

Whatever. This is not a debate thread, I don't expect you to provide evidence because I don't expect you to debate. If you wish to discuss this elsewhere, then you may initiate that discussion there.

As I said to Mouthwash, please restrict your posting in this thread to questions or follow-up questions, and refrain from running commentary or pure rebuttals. I'm more than happy to discuss things in other threads, but this is not a discussion thread, and the place for your opinion on these matters is not here.

This thread is for learning more about socialism and communism, and how socialists and communists think and behave. It has no other purpose than that. Things are going great so far, I ask that all of you respect this principle, which has governed the Ask an X threads for many years. Thank you.
Moderator Action: Well said Cheezy!
 
Moderator Action: An appropriate question

Yes.

Moderator Action: An appropriate question

Half an "argument" by your definition, actually.

Moderator Action: This is not a thread for arguments.

The statement directly concerned my question. It was not a "rebuttal" to anything he said. By saying that there were plenty of other reasons why they should have killed Ukrainians, I was inquiring into the possibilities of why they should have done so. Which is an informal question. Or is making comments about the responses to your question (pointing out that LW hadn't actually given me an answer, and postulating other motives that the Soviets might have had) banned as well? In that case, I'll go through the previous threads and find all the posts in which this has happened without incident or moderator action, and ask the question of why I was singled out. :)
 
There are plenty of other ways to suppress cultural animosities or nationalist breakaway groups than just killing a lot of people.
However, at times states decided that "killing a lot of people" will do just fine for suppressing ethnic groups perceived as undesirable, the most obvious example is, of course, the Nazis exterminating Jews and Roma. Lopar von Trotha and the Gerero genocide is another example. See also Croatian Ustashe and their plan to kill off a third of Serbian people, deport another third and assimilate the rest. There's nothing inherently impossible in the "Stalin perceived Ukrainians as a danger and decided to do a mass killing of Ukrainians to weaken and terrorize the nation" statement (other governments did so with other people), the point is, that statement is false.

In fact, I don't really get what you're doing here; everyone here is saying that the Ukrainian famine was not a result of a deliberately conceived "Ukrainian extermination" plan, yet you assertively and continuously demand reasons why Stalin would deliberately exterminate them, like you were arguing with the opposite position...
 
However, at times states decided that "killing a lot of people" will do just fine for suppressing ethnic groups perceived as undesirable, the most obvious example is, of course, the Nazis exterminating Jews and Roma. Lopar von Trotha and the Gerero genocide is another example. See also Croatian Ustashe and their plan to kill off a third of Serbian people, deport another third and assimilate the rest. There's nothing inherently impossible in the "Stalin perceived Ukrainians as a danger and decided to do a mass killing of Ukrainians to weaken and terrorize the nation" statement (other governments did so with other people), the point is, that statement is false.

In fact, I don't really get what you're doing here; everyone here is saying that the Ukrainian famine was not a result of a deliberately conceived "Ukrainian extermination" plan, yet you assertively and continuously demand reasons why Stalin would deliberately exterminate them, like you were arguing with the opposite position...

Hey, wait a second, you did the exact same thing and you're still doing it right now. You aren't listed as a commie.
 
Where do you think a communist theory of justice differs from a liberal egalitarian theory of justice? Concurrently, and this is a very closely related question, why do you think the communist theory is right?

*I'm aware that sometimes people like to say the notion of 'justice' is just an ideological veneer imposed by the ruling elite. If you are one of those people, replace 'justice' with the politically overriding normative value of your choice.
 
Hey, wait a second, you did the exact same thing and you're still doing it right now. You aren't listed as a commie.
Well, he does live in Russia.
Plus he isn't so much answering a question and repeating what everyone else has already said (and repeated) beforehand.
 
Well, he does live in Russia.
Plus he isn't so much answering a question and repeating what everyone else has already said (and repeated) beforehand.

He dared voice an opinion. That counts as commenting and is against the rules. Look, can you move on?
 
Correct. It is not for any social system of any nation to force itself on another. And I challenge you to find evdence of China or Cuba peddling influence or "politicizing" because of the trade they do or the good works they perform.
I challenge you to find a single investment Cuba has made. As for Chavez, he gives away millions of dollars in oil, even to the US, so that point is incorrect.

As a point of fact, the first and best thing a socialist government in the US can do it cut off aid to Egypt, Israel, Colombia and cut funding for NED and all of the crap -- as well as close all of its military bases overseas. See how long it will take for progressive elements in these natios to take and hold power.

World conditions favor socialism and are unfavorable to capitalism. How many more financial crises can we stand? More to come.
With the last statement I agree, as I posted almost a year ago, we just don't agree on the exact solution or the methods.

Chávez never gave anything for free and we know it. Whether it can be proved before a court of law is another thing entirely. Exchanging votes, retraining militants, etc. was a rather obscure way of payment for Chávez's services, but that doesn't exactly fit this thread here and we can all agree that just throwing money at things isn't Socialism, or else the UAE would be Communist Sheikhs.
Do you want me to be frank? Those purges saved the USSR.
Saved the USSR? Erm, from whom, and from what?
If anything they nearly resulted in the Red Army beign obliterated because there was no one really capable of taking command.
Well, he does live in Russia.
It's not the same any longer.
 
Saved the USSR? Erm, from whom, and from what?
If anything they nearly resulted in the Red Army beign obliterated because there was no one really capable of taking command.

Which brings us to a related question, which I wanted to ask Cheezy in the other thread when he implied the purges were needed:

Lets say, for the sake of the argument, that the purges were in fact necessary (I don't believe that for a second and don't see how anyone can believe in such utter nonsense in good faith, but lets leave that aside for a moment). Why kill the purged ones? If they were not really committed communists, if they had some "dangerous counter-revolutionary" ideas, why not simply expel them from the party, the army or whatever, and let them carry on with their lives? What can possibly justify executing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people to supposedly "save" the nation? Why make up bogus charges of spying, of Trostkyist-fascist links, and things like that which continue to taint the image of communists so many decades afterwards, and rightly ruined the reputation of Western Stalin admirers?

If I may offer critical comment, this sort of attitude ("the purges were necessary") is exactly what makes communists so abhorrent at the eyes of the vast majority of people. You folks come out as sinister and fanatic, and most people don't like that at all. Live and let live.
 
If I may offer critical comment, this sort of attitude ("the purges were necessary") is exactly what makes Communists so abhorrent at the eyes of the vast majority of people. You folks come out as sinister and fanatic, and most people don't like that at all. Live and let live.
Note the amendment. Far as I'm concerned, whatever was admirable in the Soviet Union was drowned in blood at Kronstad, so I don't much fancy taking the weight of something that happened two decades later.

Where do you think a communist theory of justice differs from a liberal egalitarian theory of justice? Concurrently, and this is a very closely related question, why do you think the communist theory is right?

*I'm aware that sometimes people like to say the notion of 'justice' is just an ideological veneer imposed by the ruling elite. If you are one of those people, replace 'justice' with the politically overriding normative value of your choice.
I think the difference is that liberals tend to understand "justice" in terms of a set of minimum requirements a society must meet to be considered "just", beyond which everyone is left to shamble along as they will, or can. Once the minimum requirements of "justice" are fulfilled, we experience no further obligations to our neighbours beyond leaving them alone. A communist theory of justice, such as it is, is concerned with the fulfilment of human needs for their own sake, and there's not really a point at which you can say "yep, we have fulfilled all the needs", so there's not a point at which your obligations to others are dissolved. If more can be done, more must be done, regardless of what has been done until now.

I think the communist theory is, if not correct, then more preferable, because if people are people, if they are end and not means, then there's no point at which we can give them so much that they somehow cease to people, and so no point at which we longer have an interest in fulfilling their needs. The liberal position, as I understand it, seems to presume either that there comes a point at which humanity loses its moral consequence, and I don't know how that could be the case, let alone what that point would be.
 
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