Coronavirus. The n(in)th sequel.

[El_Machinae]

It's less academic if you've had it.

I have vaccine-hesitant people in my life who're at strong odds of dying because of the errors we've made during this. It's all academic. It's all political. It's all an intersection between politics, the actual underlying biology, and human factors. I can't control the biology or the politics, the best I can notice is the human factors. There have been a lot of errors made. We've definitely been underserved, despite partisan politics muddying the waters.

I have different conversations elsewhere, and this forum is a bit of an echo-chamber, but refusing to acknowledge natural immunity really is a potential problem. The science on it will actually be reasonably clear, relative to the value of any specific double-vax mandate, so it will mostly be a question as to whether it's perceived as goalposts shifting. The conversation will probably parallel boosters. Now, granted, when I say "potential problem", I'm also referring to the next pandemic we're going to bungle. We're also going to have conversations about where the burden of proof is.

On the back-end, the technical infrastructure to show a previous positive test as well as being able to show vaccination status is probably pretty tough to do, if only because they're different information silos, even if governed by similar institutions.

 

[uppi]

On the back-end, the technical infrastructure to show a previous positive test as well as being able to show vaccination status is probably pretty tough to do, if only because they're different information silos, even if governed by similar institutions.

Uhh...

https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work...nes-europeans/eu-digital-covid-certificate_en

An EU Digital COVID Certificate is a digital proof that a person has either

- been vaccinated against COVID-19
- received a negative test result or
- recovered from COVID-19

Key features of the certificate

• Digital and/or paper format
• with QR code
• free of charge
• in national language and English
• safe and secure
• valid in all EU countries

43 countries are connected to it, most of them with their own information silos.

 

[Drakle]

I have vaccine-hesitant people in my life who're at strong odds of dying because of the errors we've made during this. It's all academic. It's all political. It's all an intersection between politics, the actual underlying biology, and human factors. I can't control the biology or the politics, the best I can notice is the human factors. There have been a lot of errors made. We've definitely been underserved, despite partisan politics muddying the waters.

I have different conversations elsewhere, and this forum is a bit of an echo-chamber, but refusing to acknowledge natural immunity really is a potential problem. The science on it will actually be reasonably clear, relative to the value of any specific double-vax mandate, so it will mostly be a question as to whether it's perceived as goalposts shifting. The conversation will probably parallel boosters. Now, granted, when I say "potential problem", I'm also referring to the next pandemic we're going to bungle. We're also going to have conversations about where the burden of proof is.

On the back-end, the technical infrastructure to show a previous positive test as well as being able to show vaccination status is probably pretty tough to do, if only because they're different information silos, even if governed by similar institutions.

No one is denying that 'natural immunity' exists. That's how previous diseases burn out. They ripped through a population, killing a bunch of them and fade away when they run of victims. But we don't have to do that, because we have vaccines. I've already explained multiple times the lack of a opportunity cost, the unneeded complexity of adding it as a exception, and the way it encourages bad incentives, since the addled anti vaxxers will seek out the disease to avoid the vaccine. If they know they don't have that path they can buckle to the other incentives. If you give them the out, they will have COVID-19 parties like chickenpox parties.

If we want to not bungle the next pandemic, banning Facebook and far Right wing 'news' for being amoral malicious actors, who go a hell of a long way.

 

[Lexicus]

If we want to not bungle the next pandemic, banning Facebook and far Right wing 'news' for being amoral malicious actors, who go a hell of a long way.

Indeed, the destruction of organized conservatism would help us in the next pandemic far more than any amount of message-tuning by whomever El_Mach is referring to as "we".

 

[Kaitzilla]

No one is denying that 'natural immunity' exists. That's how previous diseases burn out. They ripped through a population, killing a bunch of them and fade away when they run of victims. But we don't have to do that, because we have vaccines. I've already explained multiple times the lack of a opportunity cost, the unneeded complexity of adding it as a exception, and the way it encourages bad incentives, since the addled anti vaxxers will seek out the disease to avoid the vaccine. If they know they don't have that path they can buckle to the other incentives. If you give them the out, they will have COVID-19 parties like chickenpox parties.

If we want to not bungle the next pandemic, banning Facebook and far Right wing 'news' for being amoral malicious actors, who go a hell of a long way.

Facebook is down across the whole country right now.

Can anyone in another country still access it?

 

[EnglishEdward]

I have vaccine-hesitant people in my life who're at strong odds of dying because of the errors we've made during this. It's all academic. It's all political. It's all an intersection between politics, the actual underlying biology, and human factors. I can't control the biology or the politics, the best I can notice is the human factors. There have been a lot of errors made. We've definitely been underserved, despite partisan politics muddying the waters.

I have different conversations elsewhere, and this forum is a bit of an echo-chamber, but refusing to acknowledge natural immunity really is a potential problem. The science on it will actually be reasonably clear, relative to the value of any specific double-vax mandate, so it will mostly be a question as to whether it's perceived as goalposts shifting. The conversation will probably parallel boosters. Now, granted, when I say "potential problem", I'm also referring to the next pandemic we're going to bungle. We're also going to have conversations about where the burden of proof is.

On the back-end, the technical infrastructure to show a previous positive test as well as being able to show vaccination status is probably pretty tough to do, if only because they're different information silos, even if governed by similar institutions.

 

[<Nexus>]

Facebook is down across the whole country right now.

Can anyone in another country still access it?

Facebook is down all over the world.

...but the memes are already spreading like wildfire

Spoiler :

 

[EnglishEdward]

If one has had and survived Coronavirus, then until one's immunity has started to decline which is
typically many months, the vaccine will provide no benefit to either the individual or wider society.

There is therefore a period of time during which the administration of the vaccine is totally pointless.
Undertaking medical procedures for no point is disreputable at best, perhaps an unconstitutional assault.

But employers may reasonably require vaccination or proof of having experienced the disease.

This means that those who have recovered without being formally diagnosed as having had
Covid may regrettably be obliged to get vaccinated or suffer some kind of disadvantage.

 

[El_Machinae]

There is definitely a benefit to getting a booster after fighting off infection

Indeed, the destruction of organized conservatism would help us in the next pandemic far more than any amount of message-tuning by whomever El_Mach is referring to as "we".

Or, you know, both.
Plus, most of my complaints have been about an actual deficit in the process, nothing to do with tuning but actual failure to achieve a minimum

 

[Takhisis]

In order to celebrate the fact that the electorate voted against the mismanagement of the pandemic and the economy and police brutality and so on we have decided to relax by letting everyone just attend football matches and raves and so on, allegedly only at partial capacity, &c. which has of course not been respected anywhere.

I suppose we'll get another spike like the one we got after Maradona's funeral.

 

[Arwon]

Kiwis recognising the realities of delta that the major Australian states worked out a couple months ago - New Zealand PM Jacinda Ardern abandons plans for COVID-19 elimination as Auckland plans to reopen in phases.

 

[EnglishEdward]

There is definitely a benefit to getting a booster after fighting off infection

Yes, but there is no point in rushing it.

And as far as I can understand, it usually takes many months for there to be a significant drop in immune preparedness.

 

[El_Machinae]

Yeah, that will depend entirely on when you fought off the infection, which is something you obviously understand. AFAICT, it's basically going to be the same discussion as the need for a booster. Eventually a portion of the double-vaxxed will/should get a booster and eventually there's going to be massive social pressure for most people to do so.

 

[stfoskey12]

80% of adults in Oklahoma County, the most populous county in Oklahoma, have now received at least one dose of a covid vaccine. Sadly, that number is still less than 50% in many rural counties.

https://ok-covid-19.com/

 

[EnglishEdward]

@ El_Machinae

At the moment, I am trying to get the annual flu jab.

 

[red_elk]

Watched fresh video stream about corona research news.

Few excerpts which may be interesting:

• Israel was quite successful in extinguishing new Delta wave, mostly because they used boosters which gave very good results.
• Statistics published by Argentine shows that combination of "natural immunity" + vaccine gives the strongest protective effect against Delta variant. Natural immunity alone is much less effective.
• Sputnik is effective against Delta, even more than it was initially anticipated.
• There is a modified variant of Sputnik "tuned" against Delta, but it's currently not used. Because it requires additional testing and because vanilla version is good enough.
• Vaccination campaign in Russia is in a sorry state.

 

[Drakle]

• Vaccination campaign in Russia is in a sorry state.

Is the government doing to do mandates? Or is the plan just to keep sitting on its hands as it burns through the population

 

[red_elk]

Is the government doing to do mandates?

I hope they'll do.
There were restrictions for non-vaccinated for about a month in Summer, but they were cancelled. Probably because of elections in parliament, in order not to drop ruling party ratings.
Right now it looks like nobody cares anymore, neither government nor people.

 

[innonimatu]

No one is denying that 'natural immunity' exists. That's how previous diseases burn out. They ripped through a population, killing a bunch of them and fade away when they run of victims. But we don't have to do that, because we have vaccines. I've already explained multiple times the lack of a opportunity cost, the unneeded complexity of adding it as a exception, and the way it encourages bad incentives, since the addled anti vaxxers will seek out the disease to avoid the vaccine. If they know they don't have that path they can buckle to the other incentives. If you give them the out, they will have COVID-19 parties like chickenpox parties.

Unneeded complexity? Just about every country in Europe managed to take into account prior infection. What's hard about it?
The real danged is the unneeded aggravation of forcing a dangerous vaccine on people who know for a fact that they don't need it. There will he hell to pay for it. Already is. It was crazy.

The countries that have more people vaccinated didn't try to actually force vaccination. It makes a political issue of it and backfires. And also bastardizing science in the process, as the US government is doing, leads to total disaster.

I hope they'll do.
There were restrictions for non-vaccinated for about a month in Summer, but they were cancelled. Probably because of elections in parliament, in order not to drop ruling party ratings.
Right now it looks like nobody cares anymore, neither government nor people.

It won't work, it would be a mistake to attempt. Either people are persuaded that the vaccine is an advantage or they will refuse it, some violently so. And destabilize a whole country in the process, for no gain.

Kiwis recognising the realities of delta that the major Australian states worked out a couple months ago - New Zealand PM Jacinda Ardern abandons plans for COVID-19 elimination as Auckland plans to reopen in phases.

And Gladys has resigned after screwing up the covid defense in Australia.

The reality is that it is a suppressible virus, bit that requires a consistent strategy. Which Australia dropped. And now NZ fears being alone and drops it also...

I dont know how long covid induced immunity lasts, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a life time or longer. Maybe people who got covid before having kids will pass along some protection to them. Most people who got covid survived without serious issue, they got that immunity from their ancestors. Now what did I get wrong about the science?

I have strong reason to suspect less than a year. Which is another reason why imo "living with this virus" is blindly advancing into disaster.

 

[Drakle]

Unneeded complexity? Just about every country in Europe managed to take into account prior infection. What's hard about it?
The real danged is the unneeded aggravation of forcing a dangerous vaccine on people who know for a fact that they don't need it. There will he hell to pay for it. Already is. It was crazy.

The countries that have more people vaccinated didn't try to actually force vaccination. It makes a political issue of it and backfires. And also bastardizing science in the process, as the US government is doing, leads to total disaster.

It won't work, it would be a mistake to attempt. Either people are persuaded that the vaccine is an advantage or they will refuse it, some violently so. And destabilize a whole country in the process, for no gain.

And Gladys has resigned after screwing up the covid defense in Australia.

The reality is that it is a suppressible virus, bit that requires a consistent strategy. Which Australia dropped. And now NZ fears being alone and drops it also...

I have strong reason to suspect less than a year. Which is another reason why imo "living with this virus" is blindly advancing into disaster.

It's not a dangerous vaccine. And Gladys resigned over corruption, not COVID.