In What Electronic Entertainment Have You Been Partaking #19: Cyberpunked

[thecrazyscot]

A tiny vocal minority of (mostly male, mostly alt-right) gamers are whiney and entitled. Most gamers are *gasp* people who play videogames. That includes people who play Nintendo Switch, grandmas who play Solitaire and hermits who spend 10 hours a day on dwarf fortress.

This "gamers are whiney and entitled" meme is literally just a continuation of the nerd trope (and the manchild trope! let's not forget that!) and needs to die. Gaming is something virtually anyone does nowadays. Even Joe Boomer and Chad Thundercrock, even your Indionesion grand-grand uncle is probably playing indonesian flappy birds somewhere. Saying "gamers are entitled" makes about as much sense as saying "people who like movies are entitled". Virtually everyone likes/has seen movies. There is nothing that gamers have in common aside from playing videogames. Thinking all gamers are manhild neckbeards is about as stringent as thinking all physicists are like Big Bang theory characters. practically none are.

Worse even, "gamers are whiney" is routinely used as an argument in favor of big corporations, against consumers. "if you don't like it, just don't buy it! stop complaining, no one is forcing you to buy it, right?"

**** this noise and **** bootlicking multi billion dollar corporations. Activision is a piece of ****. Ubisoft is literally infested with rapey old men who hold meetings in strip clubs. Workers are getting laid off for absolutely zero reason besides profit. Crunch is omnipresent. Half of all games released nowadays have lootboxes, p2w mechanics or are purposefully built around buying "exp boosts" and other "timesavers" with real money. People should be complaining. We have ample reason to complain. the sad thing is of course that with all this dumpsterfire **** going on some idiots still complain about lesbian protagonists because it's the downfall of western civilization.



This is a great example actually - The Last of Us 2, a game which had so many things wrong with it, a case of developers actively abusing and underpaying their staff, and yet the only complaints that were prominently featured were alt-right bullfeathers about hairstyles and """gender ideology""".

it seems to me more than video-game journalism or criticism is in crisis, rather than this being about "gamers". how many video game journalists actively publish bad stuff about the industry? I can genuinely only name three.

I guess I belong more in the "angry gamer stereotype" camp than in the whiney gamer camp. dozens of broken mice and keyboards can attest to that.

That's a lot of salt...you're trying to disprove my point somehow?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That's a lot of salt...you're trying to disprove my point somehow?

I thought it was a well-reasoned, well-written post.

 

[H4run]

That's a lot of salt...you're trying to disprove my point somehow?

He negating the generalization of gamer population that is used by big gaming company as a strawman to knock off comment of unsatisfied customer and coherent critics.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Trying to rush through the quests for No Man's Sky. The story lacks an element of investment, so it feels like I'm just doing busywork.

Granted, some of the quests are busywork. Go build a submarine and then use it to travel hundreds of miles at a speedy clip of like 50 miles per hour. Then use it to travel back. Then use it to travel elsewhere. Then use it to travel back. Then use it to travel elsewhere...

You can cheese it and summon your starship on land to travel most of the distance in 10 seconds instead of 7+ minutes, but all of these destinations are a good few hundred meters from shore so you're stuck slumming it with a doggy-paddling submarine constantly. Took two hours to complete and there wasn't even a real ending to the quest. Just a shrug of the shoulders. Fantastic.

I've just been flying around and exploring for the most part. I found a crashed explorer better than my current one (it's B-class instead of C) so I'm fixing that up. Sometimes I do the randomized missions.

 

[aelf]

He negating the generalization of gamer population that is used by big gaming company as a strawman to knock off comment of unsatisfied customer and coherent critics.

I've never seen it actually being used by big gaming companies. Maybe Naughty Dog? It's usually used by game journalists and other gamers.

 

[H4run]

I've never seen it actually being used by big gaming companies. Maybe Naughty Dog? It's usually used by game journalists and other gamers.

True, they would not directly trash their fans/captive market and shoo them off.

However the size and influence of the current gaming industry is different than before, they are Behemoths, their market are worth the value of $20 billion annually, and such resources is used to influence gamer journalism and abuse their journalistic "credibility" as both for their PR and bodyguard: shaming and scrutinizing any critics and unsatisfied customer, because that's bad for business.

I trust more the suppose to be less "credible" and small reviewer or a complain of a user, than comprehensive and "professional" review from gaming journalist. Because they are somewhat related with the big company? I can't bring any prove but I know it's there, perhaps with a little bit search I will find some example of that "affair".

 

[yung.carl.jung]

That's a lot of salt...you're trying to disprove my point somehow?

it's not salt, it's pure, unadultered anger

I thought it was a well-reasoned, well-written post.

thanks, man, so nice and understanding as always. I barely keep sane without a toddler, I think we should all give you props on how well you're handling a pandemic with tiny human related stress phenomena

He negating the generalization of gamer population that is used by big gaming company as a strawman to knock off comment of unsatisfied customer and coherent critics.

that is exactly what I wanted to say, but much more easy to understand and coherent!

I've never seen it actually being used by big gaming companies. Maybe Naughty Dog? It's usually used by game journalists and other gamers.

big gaming companies rarely release anything but positive press, but the stereotype is definitely used by industry plant journalists very frequently. Jim Sterling recently made a good point about how if you cover new games/consoles/etc. negatively in any way, many companies will just stop sending you anything and that this can be financial suicide for smaller/independent journalists, which is one reason why we get the same overexcited articles for every single "next gen" console or title. especially if you consider the fact that "triple A" games just keeps rising every odd year.

 

[aelf]

But game journalists and companies also influence users. So the small reviewers/users themselves may be aligned with game journalists' or big companies' agendas.

In the case of Cyberpunk 2077, game journalists' views on the gender and trans issues seem to have contributed to forming a camp of gamers who complain incessantly about every little issue with customization - non-bug-related issues that could easily be patched in later.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

But game journalists and companies also influence users.

agreed, but in different ways. if you risk losing your job/business for badmouthing a game or a company that puts you in a very precarious position, one which amateur (aka non-professional) journalists and critics do not find themselves in.

So the small reviewers/users themselves may be aligned with game journalists' or big companies' agendas.

many are, no doubt, just like how many consumers are constantly defending corporate greed by willingly defending yet another price increase or in-game store or gambling in YouTube comment sections or Reddit threads, essentially doing unpaid PR work for a company that is hellbent on draining them of every penny. people gonna people.

 

[H4run]

agreed, but in different ways. if you risk losing your job/business for badmouthing a game or a company that puts you in a very precarious position, one which amateur (aka non-professional) journalists and critics do not find themselves in.



many are, no doubt, just like how many consumers are constantly defending corporate greed by willingly defending yet another price increase or in-game store or gambling in YouTube comment sections or Reddit threads, essentially doing unpaid PR work for a company that is hellbent on draining them of every penny. people gonna people.

True, however Aelf give an example where game journalist able to reacted against considerably huge company and one of the most anticipated game title ever. So there is an out of pattern sample.

Or am I read him wrong?

 

[aelf]

There are always a few game journalists who are going against the grain. They're usually not given as much access, yes, but they're around.

In this case, though, CDPR is on the borderline of being a big company. It doesn't seem like they have the influence of a traditional big gaming company yet, and that likely explains all the bad press around the non-bug-related issues.

 

[Ajidica]

In this case, though, CDPR is on the borderline of being a big company. It doesn't seem like they have the influence of a traditional big gaming company yet, and that likely explains all the bad press around the non-bug-related issues.

Why aren't you considering CDPR a full-on 'big company'? Witcher 3 and CP2077 were AAA budget games put out to massive marketing and hype campaigns. While it isn't a strict comparison due to differing corporate structures and the nature of the games industry, CDPR has more employees than Bioware and Bethesda by a good margin. Some of that may be due to Bioware and Bethesda not being publishers, but CDPR is big by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Gorbles]

Getting the feeling from some in here that folks aren't allowed to criticise Cyberpunk, which is funny.

@yung.carl.jung

I feel like you're missing the point. Contextually, culturally, when people say "gamers" they're often referring to that subset you're talking about. A lot of "gamers" online don't refer to Switch players as "real" gamers. Among many other forms of gatekeeping, topically including but not limited to the amazing amount of PS4 trashing from folks online desperate to maintain their dissonance in light of 2077's pretty marred launch.

A lot of this comes out of online culture over the past half-decade or more. Is it unfair to folks who "just" want to play video games? Sure. Have most people who've spent a decent amount of time online in the past decade internalised stereotypes about games development and games journalism? Also yes.

Don't reject the importance of the Gamer(TM) stereotype, because it is everything bad about the hobby. Well, most of the bad. It represents the people who hold games up like Cyberpunk while tearing down other games for the same flaws (not aimed at anyone here. I mean tearing down in nasty, often petty ways). It represents the worse, like you've pointed out. It represents ignorance of professional expertise as a badge of honour (not unique to Gamers, that one, hah). And so on, and so forth.

Regardless, this comes from a place of you defending all folks who play video game. Nothing wrong with that on the surface of it. And maybe the post you were replying to was generalising in ignorance. But I always like to highlight this where I can, especially having read a bunch of stereotypes over the past page and a half and seeing them left in the dust.

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No other games update from me, sorry. Paused my first (!) viewing of Into The Spiderverse to write this, and eager to get back to it. Loving it.

 

[AdamCrock]

A compilation of CP2077.... something .... and it's deifinitely strong ! - adult strong ! (but hey!! The game itself is 18 and 21+ in some regions -> so minors .... don't watch it :

Spoiler I mean it :

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Jim Sterling recently made a good point about how if you cover new games/consoles/etc. negatively in any way, many companies will just stop sending you anything and that this can be financial suicide for smaller/independent journalists, which is one reason why we get the same overexcited articles for every single "next gen" console or title. especially if you consider the fact that "triple A" games just keeps rising every odd year.

It's not just an argument he makes - it's a real thing. I recently read an article from an outlet that was cut off entirely by NVIDIA, not for trashing their product but for failing to highlight the aspects of it that they wanted highlighted. They backtracked after the magazine went public with the ridiculous emails NVIDIA sent, but this kind of stuff is becoming entrenched behavior by the gaming industry.

In the case of Cyberpunk 2077, game journalists' views on the gender and trans issues seem to have contributed to forming a camp of gamers who complain incessantly about every little issue with customization - non-bug-related issues that could easily be patched in later.

Sony wouldn't have removed the game entirely if the problems stopped at the surface level.

 

[AdamCrock]

Sony wouldn't have removed the game entirely if the problems stopped at the surface level.

A horsehockey year , a horsehockey game ..... that'a what you get from 2020 ...

Let'a hope 2021 will be better CDPR (Let's be honest here - releasing a game before X-mas so that the people would buy (as a present perhaps?) deserve their punishment !!

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I am still interested in playing it. I hope they fix it soon!

 

[AdamCrock]

I am still interested in playing it. I hope they fix it soon!

TBH I'd still play it too !! Mainly for Keanu Reeves ! .....

...well We've all got our reasons ....

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Those damn entitled gamers, whining about how they want a functioning game!

https://www.ign.com/articles/cyberpunk-2077-save-files-over-8mb-may-become-permanently-corrupt

 

[AdamCrock]

Those damn entitled gamers, whining about how they want a functioning game!

https://www.ign.com/articles/cyberpunk-2077-save-files-over-8mb-may-become-permanently-corrupt

Wake up Samurai .... We've got some bugs to fix