MB3 - Old Testament Bunfight
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
).
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
It's the number of 'free' Military units that really made me go for Monarchy. It will allow a garrison of 2 per town and an attack force of 2 per city, 6 per Metro.
Just to be clear - IIRC Monarchy gives 2 units per town, 4 per city and 8 per metropolis fro free. That adds up to a sizeable force in the not too distant future
Ted
Just to be clear - IIRC Monarchy gives 2 units per town, 4 per city and 8 per metropolis fro free. That adds up to a sizeable force in the not too distant future
Ted
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
In my struggle to express myself coherently I managed to overlook that point
Ted
Originally posted by TedJackson
In my struggle to express myself coherently I managed to overlook that point
The elegance of this kind of statements is the reason why I love English.
Northern Pike
Deity
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- Jul 29, 2003
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- 6,673
850 (0): Pe-ople? 
My main goal for this turn will just be to get through our anarchy. I'll let some units complete before revolting so that we won't appear quite so vulnerable.
Given the lightning tech pace of this game, horsemen for upgrade to knights would seem to be our best military choice. With the Sipahi in our future, the mounted upgrade path is definitely the one we should pursue.
Doing our min research at 10% is costing us 3 gpt, so I hire a homeless scientist.
I switch Constantinople from horseman to barracks, since the time has come to stop producing regular units.
I switch Adrianople from settler to horseman, since it has a barracks.
After that discussion of whether Izmit should first get a temple or a library, it has neither and is building neither! I switch it from pikeman to library.
I upgrade a veteran warrior to MDI, just so that we'll look tougher by the "What's their best unit?" test.
Some Aztec-Zulu fighting near Brusa.
825 (1): I establish an embassy with the Zulus for 44 gold. Zimbabwe is producing 12 spt, is about to complete the Great Library, and is garrisoned by four Impis. Then I give the Zulus 15 gold for a RoP agreement--another precaution, since their units are adjacent to our cities anyway. I look into bringing them into our war against Egypt, but they want too much, given the distance between Zululand and Mexico.
Some gratifying Aztec-Zulu and Roman-Zulu carnage.
Constantinople barracks --> marketplace.
The Babylonians beat the Zulus to the Great Library by a turn. Too bad; better culture laggards should have gotten it than culture monsters.
800 (2): For Republic, the Aztecs will join the war against Egypt and give us 6 gpt, 43 gold, and WM. They already have Monarchy, so it doesn't much matter to us whether they get Republic. I make the deal.
I buy two workers from Rome for 238 gold and WM. I admire your scruples about this sort of thing, Ted, but as far as I'm concerned the threshold at which it becomes completely acceptable is 2000 BC.
The Zulus and Carthaginians make peace.
775 (3): Uskudar and Adrianople having completed their horsemen, I revolt. We get eight turns of anarchy.
The Aztecs join Babylon's war against Persia.
An Egyptian swordsman approaches Sinop.
750 (4): The Iroquois join the war against Persia, and the Celts join the war against the Zulus.
Two Egyptian warriors approach Sinop. We have a spearman, a horseman, and a warrior in the town.
730 (5): The two Egyptian warriors retreat towards Asyut before the Egyptian swordsman attacks Sinop, and the swordsman, perhaps feeling abandoned, dies.
The Greeks offer us a typical deity-level trade, Monotheism and our WM for their WM. I just give them our WM.
We get our second palace expansion.
710 (6): I buy a Celtic worker for 115 gold and our WM.
The Persians and Egyptians make peace.
690 (7): The spices outside Aydin come on line.
I buy a Celtic worker for 119 gold and our WM.
The Romans demand 34 gold and our WM. Lacking Karasu's death wish--I mean, indomitable fighting spirit
--I yield.
670 (8):
650 (9): One of our MDI destroys an Egyptian warrior outside Sinop.
Suddenly the Aztecs, Babylonians, Celts, and Romans all have Theology, the first new tech to appear this round.
The Greeks and Babylonians join in the general war against the Zulus. The Iroquois, contrary to dogpile logic, side with the Zulus, though only against Greece.
630 (10): I trade Monotheism to the Greeks for 219 gold and their WM.
My main goal for this turn will just be to get through our anarchy. I'll let some units complete before revolting so that we won't appear quite so vulnerable.
Given the lightning tech pace of this game, horsemen for upgrade to knights would seem to be our best military choice. With the Sipahi in our future, the mounted upgrade path is definitely the one we should pursue.
Doing our min research at 10% is costing us 3 gpt, so I hire a homeless scientist.
I switch Constantinople from horseman to barracks, since the time has come to stop producing regular units.
I switch Adrianople from settler to horseman, since it has a barracks.
After that discussion of whether Izmit should first get a temple or a library, it has neither and is building neither! I switch it from pikeman to library.
I upgrade a veteran warrior to MDI, just so that we'll look tougher by the "What's their best unit?" test.
Some Aztec-Zulu fighting near Brusa.
825 (1): I establish an embassy with the Zulus for 44 gold. Zimbabwe is producing 12 spt, is about to complete the Great Library, and is garrisoned by four Impis. Then I give the Zulus 15 gold for a RoP agreement--another precaution, since their units are adjacent to our cities anyway. I look into bringing them into our war against Egypt, but they want too much, given the distance between Zululand and Mexico.
Some gratifying Aztec-Zulu and Roman-Zulu carnage.
Constantinople barracks --> marketplace.
The Babylonians beat the Zulus to the Great Library by a turn. Too bad; better culture laggards should have gotten it than culture monsters.
800 (2): For Republic, the Aztecs will join the war against Egypt and give us 6 gpt, 43 gold, and WM. They already have Monarchy, so it doesn't much matter to us whether they get Republic. I make the deal.
I buy two workers from Rome for 238 gold and WM. I admire your scruples about this sort of thing, Ted, but as far as I'm concerned the threshold at which it becomes completely acceptable is 2000 BC.
The Zulus and Carthaginians make peace.
775 (3): Uskudar and Adrianople having completed their horsemen, I revolt. We get eight turns of anarchy.
The Aztecs join Babylon's war against Persia.
An Egyptian swordsman approaches Sinop.
750 (4): The Iroquois join the war against Persia, and the Celts join the war against the Zulus.
Two Egyptian warriors approach Sinop. We have a spearman, a horseman, and a warrior in the town.
730 (5): The two Egyptian warriors retreat towards Asyut before the Egyptian swordsman attacks Sinop, and the swordsman, perhaps feeling abandoned, dies.
The Greeks offer us a typical deity-level trade, Monotheism and our WM for their WM. I just give them our WM.
We get our second palace expansion.
710 (6): I buy a Celtic worker for 115 gold and our WM.
The Persians and Egyptians make peace.
690 (7): The spices outside Aydin come on line.
I buy a Celtic worker for 119 gold and our WM.
The Romans demand 34 gold and our WM. Lacking Karasu's death wish--I mean, indomitable fighting spirit
--I yield.670 (8):
650 (9): One of our MDI destroys an Egyptian warrior outside Sinop.
Suddenly the Aztecs, Babylonians, Celts, and Romans all have Theology, the first new tech to appear this round.
The Greeks and Babylonians join in the general war against the Zulus. The Iroquois, contrary to dogpile logic, side with the Zulus, though only against Greece.
630 (10): I trade Monotheism to the Greeks for 219 gold and their WM.
Northern Pike
Deity
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THE FUTURE:
Our anarchy will end as soon as Enter is hit.
The Romans, Greeks, and Babylonians have just become potential trading partners for us, though all three trade routes run through Roman territory, which isn't ideal. We should probably explore the possibilities here, since in any event our RoP agreement with the Romans will soon come up for renewal, and it would be unthinkable not to extend it.
Our build strategy is fairly obvious--libraries in the towns still without cultural buildings, barracks in towns without those, then military with the emphasis on horsemen. But we shouldn't ignore more sophisticated infrastructure entirely, and I think we should have one city building a marketplace at any given time.
Our anarchy will end as soon as Enter is hit.
The Romans, Greeks, and Babylonians have just become potential trading partners for us, though all three trade routes run through Roman territory, which isn't ideal. We should probably explore the possibilities here, since in any event our RoP agreement with the Romans will soon come up for renewal, and it would be unthinkable not to extend it.
Our build strategy is fairly obvious--libraries in the towns still without cultural buildings, barracks in towns without those, then military with the emphasis on horsemen. But we shouldn't ignore more sophisticated infrastructure entirely, and I think we should have one city building a marketplace at any given time.
Northern Pike
Deity
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The map has hardly changed, so here's a bit of dialogue I found amusing:
Northern Pike
Deity
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TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Ok,
I'll be playing later today.
@Northern Pike
It's more a question of challenge than scruples
Sometimes it can be too easy to hamstring the AI. That's why I try and avoid over-abusing the border-line exploits (if I can resist the temptation).
I think Rome is fairly well established now and, no doubt, they'll use the cash for some upgrades so no harm done.
Ted
p.s. Nice work setting things up for my turn. King Edward looks over his estates and is well pleased
I'll be playing later today.
@Northern Pike
It's more a question of challenge than scruples
Sometimes it can be too easy to hamstring the AI. That's why I try and avoid over-abusing the border-line exploits (if I can resist the temptation
).I think Rome is fairly well established now and, no doubt, they'll use the cash for some upgrades so no harm done.
Ted
p.s. Nice work setting things up for my turn. King Edward looks over his estates and is well pleased
NP: you've got us safely through the anarchy period. 
jack merchant
Internationalist
If I may be so bold as to jump in with a suggestion, I'd definitely go for a republic. The extra commerce generated by republic will compensate for the lack of MP and unit support, and then some.
If you look for example at the Isabella and the Chamber of Secrets SG, we revolted from monarchy to republic after the latest war (having a sizable army for our empire size) with an income of 14gpt in Monarchy. The extra commerce generated by republic ensured that we didn't even need to raise the luxury tax to maintain happiness, and our income still jumped by ~40 gpt due to the change in gov't alone !
Moreover, the army size you need to beat deity opponents is always going to exceed the amount of free unit support by a wide margin, so the extra commerce and lower corruption from republic increases in value once your empire grows. As long as you make sure that you oscillate your wars rather than fight long protracted ones against a single opponent, WW won't be much of a problem either.
Just my two cents (and I am really just repeating the advice given to me in my first SG a long while back ).
If you look for example at the Isabella and the Chamber of Secrets SG, we revolted from monarchy to republic after the latest war (having a sizable army for our empire size) with an income of 14gpt in Monarchy. The extra commerce generated by republic ensured that we didn't even need to raise the luxury tax to maintain happiness, and our income still jumped by ~40 gpt due to the change in gov't alone !
Moreover, the army size you need to beat deity opponents is always going to exceed the amount of free unit support by a wide margin, so the extra commerce and lower corruption from republic increases in value once your empire grows. As long as you make sure that you oscillate your wars rather than fight long protracted ones against a single opponent, WW won't be much of a problem either.
Just my two cents (and I am really just repeating the advice given to me in my first SG a long while back
).
Originally posted by Northern Pike
850 (0): Pe-ople?
I had been waiting for someone to notice...
Ops. I always get confused between Izmit and Iznik. Plus, I had no web access and too many beers. So I kept it on military units. Sorry about that.
The Romans demand 34 gold and our WM. Lacking Karasu's death wish--I mean, indomitable fighting spirit
Sometimes you wonder what's the difference between the two.Anyway, Rome would have been too close even for my "fighting spirit" had it happened during my turns.
To tell the truth, I refused Cleo's demand just because I was hoping to add some spice to this game. You never know, someone may start complaining that Deity level is too easy and all that...
Besides, we may manage to slow down the AI tech pace a little bit this way.
In this respect, I think there might be some trading opportunity with Engineering / Theology.
Very noble of you to leave it to the next player... Imagine, there are people somewhere who would have played one more turn in this situation...
@Karasu: :jump:
You've maganed to poke fun at just about everyone of us in one post.
You've maganed to poke fun at just about everyone of us in one post.
- Joined
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I couldn't agree more Jack, and moreover it will be difficult to change our minds later. Another 8 turns of anarchy would be difficult to swallow.
Also if we are going to station 3 or 4 units in every city, where will our attack force come from?
Stamps foot, pouts in a childlike manner and slams door on effecting his exit.
Also if we are going to station 3 or 4 units in every city, where will our attack force come from?
Stamps foot, pouts in a childlike manner and slams door on effecting his exit.
Mad: you're right as always... 
You've actually managed to make me 
, congrats.
edit: I'll edit my post before some moderator will.
You've actually managed to make me , congrats. edit: I'll edit my post before some moderator will.
Northern Pike
Deity
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Jack, thanks for your comment. I'm still strongly pro-republic, and if we could make you an honorary player in this game, that would be a 3-3-1 split in the voting....
--Very noble of you to leave it to the next player... Imagine, there are people somewhere who would have played one more turn in this situation...--
Thank you, Karasu. Nothing is more maddening than to have one's selfless acts of principle go unpraised.
--Very noble of you to leave it to the next player... Imagine, there are people somewhere who would have played one more turn in this situation...
-- Thank you, Karasu. Nothing is more maddening than to have one's selfless acts of principle go unpraised.
