Nazis in Ukraine

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Russian-Russians or Ukranian-Russians or some other kinds of Russians...

I guess that's why a fair number of Russian critics of Putin, and what he is currently doing to Russia, tends to talk about they ways in which Russian-ness itself risk rupturing over this in the end.
 
I watched that video. No he wasn't. He said that the two snipers shot three police. His job was to provoke the police into shooting protestors.

5 minutes in the photographer said he saw 2 men inside the building with guns and when he walked outside he saw more armed men, some were lying on the ground and others were taking up positions behind pillars on the 2nd floor. Sounds like 8-10 snipers.

Sergei, the sniper being interviewed said the Maidan security people were asking for shooters, he could shoot. He said he was shooting at protesters and cops, and when he did shoot at the cops they retreated. He and another man continued shooting for 20 minutes until other men came and took him away. He said there was a stash of weapons kept over night in the post office under the control of protesters.

Here's a link to the study of the evidence

https://jordanrussiacenter.org/news...s-from-trials-and-investigation/#.YivDp2jMK00

they had shotguns too, more wounded for the cause

Late night conspiracy theory: this war was arranged by military tech companies in order to use up old Soviet era weaponry in the Eastern Europe and as a showroom and testing ground for various MANPADS and shoulder-fired anti-tank launchers.

Ukraine was a shipping point for weapons pouring into Syria to arm terrorists

Ukrainian Nazis spent 8 years lying in a FISA court to spy on Russia

Thats quite a track record for the lesser evil, but you left out a few other war crimes, Libya, Syria and Yemen come to mind.

You keep repeating this to see who bites. Let's have a go.

Neo-Nazis have spent years harassing and attacking people in the States, and you've actively argued against their existence because they're not "real" in your eyes. Or that they're so few they can't make the impact people are claiming they are. So excuse me for finding it difficult to believe that your concern here is genuine ;)

You're moving your own goalposts, from never existed to they cant make the impact. They make an impact on the people they hurt or kill. I just found out we've been arming them to kill people in Ukraine, if you knew all along and didn't care, thats on you. If you're just finding out like me, why dont you care now? Cause and effect, we caused this. We caused 9/11. Madeleine Albright said a half million dead children were worth the sanctions on Iraq.

You are welcome to share evidence of those victims. No talk-show videos. Had Ukraine been intent on "genocide against Russians" they had 8 years to do it on the territory they controlled, where millions of Russians continue to live.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casua...all number of confirmed,killed by 13 May 2021.

I didn't say Ukraine is intent on genocide, they sent Nazis to attack ethnic Russians in the east for not supporting their dignified revolution. An actual genocide would embarrass the west but I do suspect a gradual ethnic replacement via intimidation campaign to drive out the undesirables is a Nazi goal. The Russians intervened, thats what stopped the Nazis.

Not only that, but the genocided Russians seemingly were so happy to be "liberated" that by savior-Russians, they threw down the Russian flag in occupied villages and raised the Ukrainian one. That's Russian gratitude for you.

Where did Russians go when Ukraine attacked the Donbas region? I'll bet a bunch ran for Russia.
 
You're moving your own goalposts, from never existed to they cant make the impact. They make an impact on the people they hurt or kill. I just found out we've been arming them to kill people in Ukraine, if you knew all along and didn't care, thats on you. If you're just finding out like me, why dont you care now? Cause and effect, we caused this. We caused 9/11. Madeleine Albright said a half million dead children were worth the sanctions on Iraq.
I'd love to see you quote me saying "they never existed". Go on.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casua...all number of confirmed,killed by 13 May 2021.

I didn't say Ukraine is intent on genocide, they sent Nazis to attack ethnic Russians in the east for not supporting their dignified revolution. An actual genocide would embarrass the west but I do suspect a gradual ethnic replacement via intimidation campaign to drive out the undesirables is a Nazi goal. The Russians intervened, thats what stopped the Nazis.
Wiki claims ~3400 civilian casualties over 7 years... including ~300 the separatists shot down with a passenger airliner. The rest obviously includes casualties of both sides, with no breakdown given.

The fighting was not over "ethnicity", but because of an open irredentist revolt to create so-called Novorossiya on half of Ukrainian territory. It is obviously impossible to clearly untangle how much of it was "genuine" local initiative and how much due to Russian incitement, but what is clear is that it would have been quickly over without direct intervention from Russian troops/mercenaries/"volunteers".

Civil wars are notoriously ugly and I don't doubt people were killed without trial by both sides. However, overall responsibility for loss of life lies foremost on those who started an armed rebellion and on those who continued to prop it up.
The large size of Russian minority in Ukraine combined with lack of conflicts outside Donbass area supports this view in my opinion. "We must take up arms and secede, else Ukrainian Nazis shall come and kill us all!" was always just simple nonsense.
 
Strange similarities to thread title and OPs general point of view.
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/the-kremlins-playbook-fabricating-pretext-to-invade-ukraine-more-myths/
The Kremlin’s Playbook: Fabricating Pretext to Invade Ukraine - More Myths

here as some snippets:

Myth: “Ukrainian forces are about to launch a major offensive in Donbas.”
Myth: “Ukraine is planning to stage or conduct a terror attack in Donbas or Russia (with numerous casualties among the civilian population).”
Myth: “Ukraine is conducting genocide against the Russian-speaking population in the East.”
Myth: “Ukraine will use chemical and other prohibited weapons against civilians in Donbas. The US is planning a “false flag” chemical weapons attack on Donbas.”
Myth: “Ukrainian military is committing atrocities in Donbas.”

Interesting that OP has posted most if not all of these allegations.

And finally a nod to the title of the thread:

Such disinformation messages are closely linked to a prominent disinformation narrative of Nazi Ukraine, cultivated by both Russian media personalities and Russian officials.
https://euvsdisinfo.eu/disinformation-cases/?disinfo_keywords[]=keyword_77101&date=&disinfo_countries[]=77547&per_page=


and finally:


Disinfo: US, Turkey and a number of NATO member states are preparing the Ukrainian-Nazis for the war in Donbas
Summary
In Donbas (Novorossia) the United States, Turkey and a number of NATO member states are preparing the Ukrainian-Nazis to go to war again.

Disproof
This is a recurring disinformation narrative from pro-Kremlin media outlets claiming that the West is interested in all-out war between Ukraine and Russia. In reality it is Russia who is inciting the Moscow-backed separatists in the eastern Ukrainian region of Donbas to violate the truce. By doing so, Russia try to impresses an endless conflict on Ukraine which drags resources and attention. Short tactic gains may also play in like trying to snatch as many concessions from Ukraine as possible ahead of the forthcoming online meeting of the Normandy format.

The attribution of Nazi-/nazism to present-day Ukraine is one of the well-known favorite deceptive slogans for many pro-Kremlin outlets.


Ukraine is not preparing military provocations in Donbas. Kyiv has repeatedly stated that it is not interested in escalation and that it prefers a peaceful solution. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that the Minsk agreements are the only option to end the war in Donbas. At the same time, the Special Monitoring Mission of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe registers almost daily violations of the truce in Donbas.

While Moscow denies the fact that it provides the separatists with military equipment, Kyiv openly receives assistance from its partners. A $125 million military package of US aid for Ukraine was announced on 1 March 2021. Ukraine receives this assistance legally and in accordance with trade agreements.

See similar disinformation cases alleging that Ukraine must continue war in Donbas, otherwise it won't receive financial support from the West; Ukraine no longer hides preparations for war against Russia and Donbas, US provoking Ukraine into war with Russia, that Kyiv’s readiness to launch offensive in Donbas with Biden’s approval, and that Washington orders Zelenskyy to raze Donbas to ground.

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/us-tu...ing-the-ukrainian-nazis-for-the-war-in-donbas

 
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Very little ever gets "decided" here. Fatigue usually set in before consensus chooses a winner. ;)
 
Especially has consensus requires people being amenable to actual discussion, while propaganda is about people deliberately lieing to misinform others. You don't get a consensus with liars who have a vested interest in keeping their lie alive.
 
unless of course the truth has somewhat a lot of lies to it .
 
Frankly, both the United States and Russia far more "Nazified" than Ukraine is...
This thread is moving too fast for me to keep up, but I would agree with this if the oath keepers were given military arms and were in charge of suppressing the CHAZ autonomous zone. Of course, if Canada was supplying CHAZ with artillery and air defence systems such that it was an existential threat to the United States we probably would have that, but still.
 
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Ukraine was a shipping point for weapons pouring into Syria to arm terrorists
I am willing to bet many more weapons got to Syria via Russia than via Ukraine.
 
Not to mention that Russia was the source of Russian arms, munitions, advisors, aircraft, etc. to the Syrian government, the dropper of barrel bombs and users of Russian chemical weapons.
 
What was decided? There is or not Nazis in Ukraine?
Is USA giving arm munition to a Nazi-army or it's conspiracy theory?
No, no decision or consensus reached.

The reality, however, is inescapable. An authoritarian nation invaded a smaller neighboring country over a period of eight years. Crimea, Donbas, and now an attempt to seize the entire country. People are dying, about a hundred per day. Medical care, proper sanitation, food, clean water, and basic shelter is imperiled for tens of millions of people. Many countries bordering Ukraine are accepting people fleeing the war (some Russians are fleeing into Finland). There are heightened concerns that nuclear or biological weapons inside Ukraine.

Also inescapable:
Authoritarianism=Nazism
 
and people are surely killing 600 other people everyday ?
 
Authoritarianism=Nazism
I don't think that. China is an autoritharian country but it isn't Nazi at all
And Ukraine is a democratic country where there is Nazism
Nazism and Autoritharianism isn't related. Let's remeber dudes as Hitler or Mussoline come to power with democratic elections.
 
I don't think that. China is an autoritharian country but it isn't Nazi at all
And Ukraine is a democratic country where there is Nazism
Nazism and Autoritharianism isn't related. Let's remeber dudes as Hitler or Mussoline come to power with democratic elections.

Mussolini didn't get was appointed by the king. China is about the closest thing to an actual Nazi regime these days. Or fascist at least.
 
I don't think that. China is an autoritharian country but it isn't Nazi at all
And Ukraine is a democratic country where there is Nazism
Nazism and Autoritharianism isn't related. Let's remeber dudes as Hitler or Mussoline come to power with democratic elections.
The Uyghurs would disagree that the People's Republic of China does not practice ethic discrimination and cultural genocide, i.e. Nazism.
 
The Uyghurs would disagree that the People's Republic of China does not practice ethic discrimination and cultural genocide, i.e. Nazism.
I see Uyghurs/Tibetean situation in China very similar of Native Americans in USA. Both are nation who is opressed by a big country. Uyghurs need to speak chinese as Navajo (for example) need to speak english.

Why you don't call US as a Nazi country for that? Because Nazism isn't that.
China isn't a Nazi country and not even Fascist. They are comunist, the Uyghurs can be part of Comunist Party and they have kind of freedom to be muslim and know their own language (they just need to be bilingual, Uyghur and chinese language) exactly as happens in the Native Americans.

Nazism is a kind of Ultra nacionalist people, I don't believe is fair call a country as China nazist.
 
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