Nazis in Ukraine

[Cutlass]

Millions of photos of real Nazis in Ukraine on the one hand. And empty chatter (without photos) of some "respectable" guys from the West - on the other. )

You took a million photos of one person?

 

[El_Machinae]

I have read your article. If you consider these statements to be serious evidence - well, we have a saying in Russia: "pull an owl on a globe." Continue to "pull" further. )

It's not my article, it was something that I easily found. Like I said, I have not heard of RIM either. I would just be surprised if the group doesn't exist. I don't know why you haven't heard of them.

 

[El_Machinae]

You are engaged in frank demogogy.

I think you are mistaking me for someone else? All that I did was clarify what NPR was (you said you didn't know) and then try to answer why the NPR article was linked (which you asked). And then, when you said that you had never heard of RIM, I asked what your internet search for their leader said.

I am mostly watching the thread for information and trying to smooth communication where I can, so I can understand viewpoints more easily. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I know very little about that part of the world, and I know that I don't know.

 

[El_Machinae]

However, I don't really understand what you mean by further references to some "RIM". This is an absolutely fake movement, which no one in Russia cares about, including Putin. These are the fantasies of some unknown Western people.

I was curious as to why you were so interested in calling it 'fake', just because you have never heard of it. I have not either, but that is no surprise. That is why I asked 'when you do an internet search for their leader, what do you get?'
Stanislav Anatolyevich Vorobyev

I wonder how different our sources of information are. I am not trying to insist that the group is important, but your insistence that is is 'fake' surprises me.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: I moved the last ~60 or so posts about Nazis from the War thread to this new thread. Please do not mix the two topics. Thanks.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Of course there is Nazism in Ukraine. I don't know your country but in Brazil is totally forbiden any reference to Nazism
I understand the Nazi is just a minority in Ukraine, but still the Ukraine governement do nothing against the Nazis

The picture of the day of women is that. Acctually isn't a Suastica. But why they do that?

When you blow up her neckpiece symbol it does not come close to matching the the one below. I think it it is not a Nazi symbol, but something else that is likely benign.

This is the symbolism of the Azov Battalion. Pay attention to the background - this is a completely open swastika, slightly encrypted with additional lines.

View attachment 622026

 

[amadeus]

User Reaction: we already have a dumpster fire thread jeezaloo

 

[El_Machinae]

I live in Russia. Before the events of February 24, we had absolutely free news. In our country have not blocked any sites other than pirated ones. Why do you think that I should not have known about such a movement (especially obviously pro-Nazi, as your article claims)? Or do you really think that we have a kind of "totalitarian country" where any information is prohibited? )

I don't expect you to know about rightwing militant organizations in Russia. Why would you? If you are expert on the topic, then I shall stop asking why you think RIM is 'fake'. But I am surprised that if you have done any type of rapid search about them, that you did not get any information about them. Remember, you are the one who called them 'fake'. That was why I was curious as to what information showed up when you did a search for their leader (Stanislav Anatolyevich Vorobyev).

I am in Canada, where we also have mostly free press. But I have learned that people have different sources of information and sometimes what is 'well-known' to one group is not known in a different group. People will be very aware of the crimes of the politicians they hate and yet very ignorant of the crimes of the politicians they like. But if we ask them to look up information about the crimes, they can very easily find good information (even if they then do not care).

I am trying to learn what our different information sources tell us. You having such a strong opinion that it was 'fake' surprised me.

(again, it is not my article)

 

[Joij21]

I don't think all of Ukraine is Nazis. However, I don't deny that there are Fascist paramilitary groups within the Ukrainian armed forces. Many of which have secret allies within the Ukrainian parliament who funnel them (most likely) embezzled state funds and equipment. Not everyone within the parliament is a Nazi though, and I doubt that Zelensky is (especially since he's Jewish). Rather he can't control what goes on within his parliament because it's extremely corrupt with poor oversight.

Now I don't agree with Putin's discission to invade because rather than de-nazifying (and I don't think that was the true purpose on Putin's part), the war will only serve to anger and radicalize Ukrainian civilians. Where before certain fascist groups may have had only a few allies among the populace and within parliament, now they will have overwhelming support. If Zelensky dies and Ukraine survives, I believe the fascists will silently move on to taking full control of the parliament and the hearts and minds of the Ukrainian people. When that happens Zelensky's successor will be the real fascist, and we will have no one else to blame but Putin himself.

Then at that point once the Ukrainian counter offensive happens, bloody reprisals will happen to Russian speakers in the Donbass and Crimea. Much worse than whatever was happening before.

 

[Birdjaguar]

This topic had grown too large not to have its own thread. Maybe it will die a quick death and drift out of sight.....

 

[El_Machinae]

Please provide a photo of these guys from RIM with weapons in their hands, going to kill civilians.

I think you are having an argument against something I have never said. And that is a lot of work to not answer my question.

I am not trying to compare which group is 'more Nazi'. I did three things (a) tell you a bit about NPR (b) try to understand why Gorbles linked that article and (c) tried to figure out why you thought they were "fake" ('fake' is a very strong word).

Your answer is "I have never heard of them" and I think you would rather discuss Nazi corruption in Ukraine

 

[Birdjaguar]

@Joij21 You have been ninjaed.... your post is above.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Millions of photos of real Nazis in Ukraine on the one hand. And empty chatter (without photos) of some "respectable" guys from the West - on the other. )

my dude the Leader of Dontesk is a Neo Nazi

Russian neo-Nazis in the ranks of terrorists in Eastern Ukraine
For instance, the leader of the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic Pavel Gubarev participated in the Russian neo-Nazi movement Russian National Unity
There is clear evidence proving that Russian radicals participate at warfare in the eastern part of Ukraine supporting Russia-backed terrorists.

 

[Ajidica]

Was the government of Ukraine too close to fashy and neo-Nazi groups? Yes.
Does this make the Russian invasion even vaguely acceptable? Absolutely not.

 

[El_Machinae]

It seems obvious that it does not make sense to discuss all the likely pro-Nazi groups in the world. Maybe they are in Russia, maybe they are not. There is real photo evidence of real Nazis in Ukraine. And there are "simply reasoning" about supposedly Nazis in Russia.

This is a typical demagogic technique of blurring the discussion.

Yes, we would call the argument "there are pro-Nazi groups in Russia too" a tu quoque argument. It would be defending Ukrainian Nazis by diluting the accusation. I am surprised people here might seem to be downplaying the existence of Nazi groups in Ukraine. Normally everyone here would be happy to see such people beaten until they need a hospital and then sent on a garbage ship to Putin as a peace offering.

But remember that you said this.

But only in one country in the world - Ukraine - the Nazis ... are allowed to create legal armed groups

I edited it so that the way it reads in English is apparent. My suspicion (it is not my claim) is that RIM being tolerated would negate this claim. They would not be 'legal', but if they were 'tolerated' sufficiently, it is the same as being legal.

I am definitely not saying that RIM is tolerated. You have told me that the very existence of the group is "fake".

Also, the discussion regarding the presence of pro-Nazi groups in Ukraine is much more interesting to me, so I shall stop trying to discuss our different sources of information.

 

[FriendlyFire]

"Alexey Milchakov, a Russian mercenary fighting for “Donetsk People’s Republic,” is well known for promoting extreme right ideology and torturing homeless animals."
This is the level of quality Western information! This guy is torturing puppies! Of course I will believe the information from this site. )

Clearly NOT a NAZI. Nothing to see here, move along

Spoiler :

 

[El_Machinae]

We are discussing different things
I don't doubt that their threat has been amplified by Western academics. It was your confidence that surprised me.

You have also not told me what your news services report on their leader, so I cannot compare the reason why you think they are fake.

well known

Holy crap. Can someone here do a safety check on this link? I clicked it thinking it was useful.

Moderator Action: Removed the link. The_J

 

[Birdjaguar]

"Alexey Milchakov, a Russian mercenary fighting for “Donetsk People’s Republic,” is well known for promoting extreme right ideology and torturing homeless animals.

Your link doesn't seem to work. i tried it and it took me to google search

Moderator Action: Removed the link. The_J

 

[r16]

uhm , let me remind or whatever . NATO in its wisdom and on some day when a lot of reports in the Turkish media say that there are more agreed points between Kiev and Moscow and a working mechanism that might or might not be useful in the future provides the Polish jets and tweets an Ukranian woman with some symbol . On a day there will also be like semi official confirmation that Nazis are instructed by the British . This is trolling of the highest order , even if Putin will like ignore it , cuddling NATO as some wayward kid or whatever . While the whole war talk depends on which side is a bigger Nazi and ı am practically still asleep , the future will see German re-armament , like greater engagement , stuff , all of which to involve a cleaner image for Nazis . It was lsrael first which rejected the Zelensky claim that Russians attacked an Holocaust memorial in itself .

 

[Strong Reaction]

Seriously, quit pushing the Nazi narrative it's not an honest attempt at discussing whats really happening. If you're so concerned about Nazi's what about Russian National Unity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity

I don't hear you crying about them.

"In 2014, RNU members joined pro-Russian forces in Ukraine during the War in Donbass[14] under commandment of Pavel Gubarev.[15] In March and May 2014, Alexander Barkashov traveled to Eastern Ukraine and resided in Donetsk.[16] In a leaked audio recording from spring 2014, Barkashov consulted Dmitri Boitsov, the leader of the Russian Orthodox Army.[17] According to Barkahsov's words, his own son fought with a column of pro-Russian fighters against Ukraine.[18] Photographs and videos posted by RNU leader Alexander Barkashov on the Russian social media website VK confirm that RNU members have been active in Russian separatist militias in Donetsk and Crimea from 2014 through at least June 2021.[19]"

Bottom line, sovereign Democratic nation is invaded by a foreign power and lots of people are dying.
You, Berzerker, don't give a **** about Nazi's your'e just trolling pro Russian propaganda.
Moderator Action: This is not an acceptable behaviour here. The_J