pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Ming China

[j51]

Yeah it’s weird that mandarins are merchants. A treasure ship with more defense and speed (doesn’t need an escort essentially) might have been a better choice for a civilian until.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I can understand why people are a bit underwhelmed, but equally, I think it's kind of interesting to have a civ designed around continuity and tradition, rather than change. It's a slightly different way to play through a campaign, isn't it? As the roster fills out, it might be nice to have a few such civs, where it makes sense.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

For me, at least, my grief is that it wasn't what I expected and the replication of the Great Wall is low hanging fruit to gripe about.

But honestly, the capacity to quickly get settlements up and running and well-protected is pretty great. It will be useful for both the Militaristic and Economic legacies.

 

[Jewman]

I agree with the disappointed sentiment... but from a gameplay perspective it looks interesting. What civs we find interesting will be completely different once we start playing and I predict this may be a dark horse fan favorite. Money and science, what's not to like.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Because the Shi Dafu were already Chinese Scholar Bureaucrat Great People?

That's my point. Why go for the name Mandarin when it doesn't specifically specify it being a type of merchant?
Especially when bǎochuán could have been used for a unique treasure ship.

I can understand why people are a bit underwhelmed, but equally, I think it's kind of interesting to have a civ designed around continuity and tradition, rather than change. It's a slightly different way to play through a campaign, isn't it? As the roster fills out, it might be nice to have a few such civs, where it makes sense.

I actually don't mind the Great Wall, and it does seem more fitting for the Ming to continue building it.

 

[Josephias]

I actually don't mind the Great Wall, and it does seem more fitting for the Ming to continue building it.

Side effect of this (maybe intended) is this will allow for really long Great Walls if you chain Han and Ming.

But honestly, the capacity to quickly get settlements up and running and well-protected

There is plenty of civs with some bonus or another to new settlements, isn’t it? (Normans, Spain, Ming…) I wonder what this age theme is about

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Side effect of this (maybe intended) is this will allow for really long Great Walls if you chain Han and Ming.



There is plenty of civs with some bonus or another to new settlements, isn’t it? (Normans, Spain, Ming…) I wonder what this age theme is about

There's definitely incentives to expand to the Distant Lands.

Also, Augustus is generally a good pick for this Age, due to his discount on Town buildings.

 

[Xandinho]

Ming is much more science-focused than I thought it could be. Speaking for myself, very science-focused civs in previous editions tended to be a bit boring because they almost always snowballed. In Civ7, with the Ages system, this may be different, so I might enjoy science-focused civs more now. Ming could get a bit of a head start in science in Exploration but then level out in the next era, avoiding the snowball effect.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

Is there a distinction between social policies and traditions? If slotting traditions has no negative impact, it would still be great to increase the number of slots (so happiness is worthwhile). Just the Ming and Han tradition can be worthwhile.

As for the Ming Great Wall, notice how it like fortifications nearby. It will be nice to see if you can make a Han/Ming double layer GW for maximum production (although it would only boost the Ming GW (needs fortifications), not the Han GW (which specifically mention "Great Wall"). That would make some militarists weep, though...^^

 

[ehecatzin]

I can understand why people are a bit underwhelmed, but equally, I think it's kind of interesting to have a civ designed around continuity and tradition, rather than change. It's a slightly different way to play through a campaign, isn't it? As the roster fills out, it might be nice to have a few such civs, where it makes sense.

I have this suspicion that once we get the hang of the new specialists and adjacencies Han into Ming will turn out to be really powerful, looking at both civs they seem like they will be stupid powerful if you play the adjacencies game right. Science, culture, gold, defense bonus...add Confucious and now you have even better science especialists.

I'll be honest I didn't enjoy the adjacencies "mini game" in civ VI, mostly because of the patchy look of cities and lack of specialists. but with improved graphics and new mechanics, maybe they will be more fun than it reads.

 

[Haig]

Good thing having great wall 2.0 is that you can keep building it in the second age too, no stress to make your wall creations ready in the first age.

 

[Krikkit1]

One thought, is the build road ability limited to settlements you do not have a road to?
Say I hav

A---B
|
C

Can I build a road from C to B?
Can I repeatedly build a road from A to B?
Does that action use up the Merchant?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Is there a distinction between social policies and traditions? If slotting traditions has no negative impact, it would still be great to increase the number of slots (so happiness is worthwhile). Just the Ming and Han tradition can be worthwhile.

As for the Ming Great Wall, notice how it like fortifications nearby. It will be nice to see if you can make a Han/Ming double layer GW for maximum production (although it would only boost the Ming GW (needs fortifications), not the Han GW (which specifically mention "Great Wall"). That would make some militarists weep, though...^^

Yes, it seems that although they are interchangeable, there is a difference between Social Policies and Traditions.

Traditions are only received from your civ's unique civics and you retain any traditions that you acquired when you enter a new Age.

Social Policies are acquired from the regular civics tree, and you lose them when you start a new Age.

 

[AriochIV]

If the Spanish didn't need special unique treasure fleets, I don't see why the Ming would.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

If the Spanish didn't need special unique treasure fleets, I don't see why the Ming would.

The Spanish at least got bonuses towards treasure fleets in their civic tree, while the Ming don't get any. I was fine with them having a Conquistador, and figured that a unique treasure ship might be saved for Ming.

I think it's at least more fitting than a merchant named after a bureaucrat scholar. Of course, maybe their intention was that Zheng He himself was also a bureaucrat, but if so that feels like a stretch?

 

[Baudshaw]

Overall, China might be the standard "beginner's civ", similar to Rome in civ 6

 

[Lord Lakely]

Ming is much more science-focused than I thought it could be. Speaking for myself, very science-focused civs in previous editions tended to be a bit boring because they almost always snowballed. In Civ7, with the Ages system, this may be different, so I might enjoy science-focused civs more now. Ming could get a bit of a head start in science in Exploration but then level out in the next era, avoiding the snowball effect.

It's effectively Civ 6 Korea. MASSIVE burst of Science at the start of the age that goes down (and eventually depletes completely with the crisis), which gives you a huge tech lead and allows you to dominate. /yawn/

But yeah the ultimate problem with the design is that a lot of people here just headcannoned it better than Andrew did. Oops.

 

[Gorbles]

But yeah the ultimate problem with the design is that a lot of people here just headcannoned it better than Andrew did. Oops.

I think it's more "Andrew (as part of a team) has knowledge of resource constraints and timelines that people freestyling in their spare time lack". To be fair, that's my go-to assumption with takes like this. It's ironic, because in my IRL job I keep moaning about a lack of resource

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I actually don't mind the Great Wall, and it does seem more fitting for the Ming to continue building it.

Maybe they didn't think the existing ones did that good of a job.

 

[dagriggstar]

I was thinking traditions were a sub type of policies in the same way a unique building is still a building…..

Anyway I was hoping for naval China since I feel like Ming China was the best opportunity to do that take on China. Especially weird to see this direction for China after the stream specifically mentioning the size of their treasure ships.

Like imagine they get a unique unit that can go to any luxury you don’t already have, on or adjacent coast that is x tiles from the capital, activate the unit and you get a treasure ship. You probably still go distant lands mostly but at least there’s an option to do something different with an escort in the homelands…