New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[bestrfcplayer]

Your rules seem incomplete. It appears that a player can only spend on stability, armies, and tech. How about culture, religion, education, army training?

Are you saying that war plans are not in orders, but publicly posted in the thread?

Oh, I'll put war plans in the orders.

 

[Angst]

You'll need to spellcheck that ruleset bestrfcplayer.

 

[Kozmos]

I don't like the techs. Like, I don't like including the concept of researching techs in a 1790 NES that is theoretically going to be going a year at a time.

Ironclads don't exist in 1790.

Organizing units in "brigades" is anachronistic, and it never applies to naval formations. Use divisions or regiments.

There are too many levels of stability.

The way you're dividing "gold" is kinda nonsensical to me.

The number of brigades in all cases is astronomically high.

Basically what you are trying to say, but are too polite is:

You are a noob. Your ideas are noobish and several years old.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Germanicus, if you open a preview thread for your 13 colonies, I will move all the reservation posts into it.

 

[germanicus12]

Alright I created one, thanks Birdjaguar, everyone please post anything related to my NES in GermaNES: Revolutionary War Preview thread. Thanks.

 

[Dance.Down]

Now, some of you may know me from my last NES that got two updates in before real-life forced it to fail. I am terribly embarrassed about that and promise to not allow this to happen again, and Discovery NES I: Bethel, my new NES that I am trying to start up out of a love of storytelling and a fascination of the opportunity presented with the NES format, is a part of this apology.

Discovery NES I: Bethel will not have the normal nation-wide focus as most NES's, players will instead play a single individual who will play an important role in shaping history, specifically the history of the 'new continent,' Bethel. As these key individuals players will be explorers, conquerers, missionaries, pirates, and all other roles common to the Age of Discovery/Colonisation*. This NES will still bear an element of fantastical possibilities, so the deeds that can be done may be akin to the things accomplished by the culture heroes and heroines from mythology/fantasy novels.

What I expect for players to get out of this is a change to become more involved in an NES by controlling a single person without those traditional vices dogging NES's with broader scopes. I will strive to make this NES about the players and impose as few restrictions on them as possible so long as these actions are within the realm of reasonable possibility. If you want to be a pirate and just spend your whole time plundering, so be it! Although the real fun of this NES comes from the things to be found inland.

On my end I want to make this NES about storytelling. I hate, HATE math with a passion despite having a passingly good grasp of its advanced machinations (why exactly four years of adv. calc. is required for a creative writing/history major is beyond me), so I will be trying to do as little of it as possible for this NES. Instead I hope to use the personal accounts of the players to create a grand story that makes some sort of sense and bears all those little things we love in any good novel. While I am starting out with a small story arc it will only remain that: a small story arc until the actions of the players takes control of the 'plot'.

*For the sake of fun the ages of discovery and colonisation are being condensed into one- the nations of this world set up successful colonies as they explored rather than waiting centuries before the great France, Spain, and England-like figures sowed their seed.


As of now I have quite a bit written up and will be- hopefully- posting everything by the end of tonight. I just want to give a chance to read the concept of the NES before I unload wallsoftext on you all!

 

[Bil]

@Dance.Down: That sounds really interesting, actually. I'd be very interested in this game, methinks, and look forward to reading your full write-up once it's done!

 

[Dance.Down]

@Bill

Here's the religion section of the background information. Have fun reading it!

Religion

Religion is very central to how a character is expected to act as well as determining what paths are open to him/her. For the sake of simplicity characters will only be able to be members of the Church of the Way (also sometimes referred to as Raphim's Way), but if you really wish to pursue a character who is a Ketim then PM me and I will PM you the oh-so-secretive ways of Ketism.

A Short History
Once there were three faiths that dominated the Old World. First there was Ketism, the precursor of the other two though small and contained to a single group called the Ketims. From Ketism came the Teachings of Ozm and then the Church of the Way, but during a great outbreak of plague roughly 95% of Tigu's population was destroyed and soon there after the Teachings of Ozm disappeared almost entirely as the people of Zariji assimilated the few remaining Tigans.

Raphim lived hundreds of years ago (roughly between 10 A.F. and 80 A.F.) and was a chieftain of a small tribe located between the Hyimin Desert and Medean Sea, but later in life became a prophet after he spoke to God. God ordered Raphim to not write down the words, but instead to live them as best as he could and teach through action, stating that words had failed his last chosen people the Ketims. Raphim, being a pious man, obeyed, but he told his wife Yashe, a Ketim woman by birth, who was free from divine constraints and wrote what her husband told her. Furthermore she taught her children and told her close friends who in turn taught their own children and husbands of this new way. Eventually a this new teaching was able to win over a significant amount of tribes close to Raphim's via the efforts of many wives.

Raphim's first born daughter, Iona, sized upon this opportunity and claimed that she was a true disciple of her father's way, as she had been the first to be taught by her mother. She claimed that it was through divine ordinance, not mere chance, that she was the first to be taught and that it was a sign from God that he wished for her to be a ruler among the people. A few tribes deferred to Iona and joined underneath her and her family, but many more women of other tribes, and even a few men, claimed that through Yashe's efforts they too had been made true disciples by being among the first and thus wisest taught. War ensued between Raphim's tribe-turned-kingdom, much of the efforts lead by his children as at this point he was an elderly man, and the other 'divine' contenders who also fought among themselves. By his death Raphim's tribe had won out against the other tribes and Iona had secured a position as the leader of this new empire by promising that the 'disciples' who had also lodged their claims were recognized as that, disciples, and therefore them and their descendants were given authority to rule over the lesser people.

This created the Kannon Empire and it was ruled, up until recently, uninterrupted by empresses and emperors descended from Raphim's line.

The Commandments

I am your Lord and God, worship none other than me
Make not yourself an idol nor use my name for ill
Keep to your faith and devotion in me and observe my rites and rituals
Honor not only your makers- your mother, your father, and myself, but also your enemies
You shall not wrongly murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not covet your neighbor or their possessions and not wrongly take what is not yours

These commandments are not unique to Raphim's Way, but originate from Ketism. The three religions, Ketism, Ozmus, and the Way, all use this set of commandments to define what is right and what is wrong, but of course there are vagaries and each interprets them differently.

Raphim's Way Guideline

Honor is distinctly important in Raphim's Way when compared to the other two Old World religions. There is a strict code to follow when interacting with your family, your friends, your lover, your betters, your subordinates, and your enemies and any breach of this code is considered not only an affront to sensible nature but to God himself.

For men honorable behavior would be to be a man of action first, words second. In this setting's society a man whose words define his actions rather than the other way around is seen as slimy and seedy, not to mention fairly unholy and disrespectful. When interacting with the family it is to be in a manner that is brusque, but supportive. When interacting with a lover it is to be in a manner that is passionate and all-consuming.* When interacting with a superior it is to be in a manner that is humble and loyal. When interacting with a subordinate it is to be in a manner that is firm and fair. When interacting with an enemy it is to be in a manner that is decisive and just.

For women honorable behavior is much more flexible, as women are allowed to be creatures comprised of both their words and actions. In this setting's society a woman whose words defines her actions is acceptable, and for that they would follow a similar code of conduct as a male's, although a woman who is more immersed in the verbal and written worlds is expected to be gentle, but inflexible in their decisions as words are more likely to be gateways for sinful actions. In terms of the family all women, regardless of their chosen fields, are to be devoted to protecting the well-being of their family members. A brother killing a brother over a great matter of honor is acceptable, but a sister killing a sister over the same matter is unforgivable under any circumstance.

Devotion to God comes directly through actions for men (and some women) and through words for women. Traditionally women are the ones who preach about God and are viewed as the spiritual conduits for his normally incomprehensible word. However the Church of the Way is lead by one male, normally the first born male of the Raphim line, who acts as the be-all-end-all in spiritual matters while virtually every one underneath him is a priestess. Of course men serve the church as priests, but rarely and only if they show an extraordinary capability to understand and analyze the divine doctrines, but even then they are normally looked down upon for being too weak to be 'men of action'.

*In fact a school exists that a man may connect to God through the worship of beauty, as beauty is a divine creation and that by seeing beauty in a chaste manner will give way to connecting to God, the origin of all this beauty.

 

[das]

Hypothetical question. Assuming the use of an "Initiative point" system to represent the varying flexibility of different governments, who should have more of those: a bureaucratic absolute monarchy, with great power and a cumbersome system for implementing it, or a tribal kingship, with much more limited (de facto if not de jure) power but theoretically more immediate methods for its execution? Likewise for various more complicated government forms like those encountered in the poleis of different stages of ancient Greek history, the English parliamentary monarchy in the various stages of its existence and so on. I need your opinions here, with some exhausting and consistent justification if possible.

 

[Thlayli]

Hypothetical question. Assuming the use of an "Initiative point" system to represent the varying flexibility of different governments, who should have more of those: a bureaucratic absolute monarchy, with great power and a cumbersome system for implementing it, or a tribal kingship, with much more limited (de facto if not de jure) power but theoretically more immediate methods for its execution? Likewise for various more complicated government forms like those encountered in the poleis of different stages of ancient Greek history, the English parliamentary monarchy in the various stages of its existence and so on. I need your opinions here, with some exhausting and consistent justification if possible.

I hope this makes sense.

I, personally, would adopt a modifier to reflect the power or organization level of government, and then an efficiency modifier that lowers the amount of initiative points depending on the size/centralization of the government.

In the example you used, the tribal kingship would have a higher number of initiative points, but it's real ability for 'getting things done' would be comparatively lower. Giving each an arbitrary number, the tribal kingship would have 5 initiative points with a power level of 2 each, while the bureaucratic monarchy would have 2 initiative points with a power level of 10 each. The tribal kingship can do more things, but less effectively.

Par example, let's take Guangxu Emperor Qing China as an example of a powerful yet cumbersome bureaucratic monarchy. In the Hundred Days Reform, the Guangxu Emperor attempts to spend more initiative points than he has, and as a result conservative forces take him out of power. If he had focused on simple military reform, or simple land reform, it would have been accomplished far more effectively than a more mobile, less organized Maratha state, for example, with less bureaucracy for implementation of reform.

The Guangxu Emperor, however, did not use his initiative points wisely, attempting to achieve massive bureaucratic reform, land reform, military reform, etc. As a result, he is taken out of power by reactionary forces (the Dowager Empress, aka the mod). Let's say he had 2 initiative points, and tried to spend the equivalent of 5. (You might need to tack on an additional size modifier for the size of the nation. This has the additional effect of making large empire-building difficult.

The Maratha, by contrast, can spread themselves more thin. They can co-opt Mughal bureaucracy, adopt western military techniques, and expand their territory simultaneously, due to their increased government mobility. However, their long-term longevity is lessened unless they make the transfer to a more stable, higher-power lower-initiative system. They do not do so, and as a result are crushed by the Durrani.

---

Plantagenet Monarchy: 5 initiative points, 1 power level (Total power: 5)
Tudor Monarchy: 3 initiative points, 3 power level (Total power: 9)
Cromwellian Commonwealth: 1 initiative point: 7 power level (Total Power: 7)
Stuart Restoration: 2 initiative points, 3-4 power level (account for dynastic inefficiency) (Total Power: 6-8)
Hanoverian Monarchy: 3 initiative points, 4 power level (Total Power: 12)

A dynastic change should theoretically bring more initiative points to the table, but the power level PER POINT should temporarily decrease. As the power of the government increases, the amount of initiative should decrease due to governmental inertia. I don't think it's a perfect system but it's what I've come up with.

The Hundred Years War is a good example of a drawn-out conflict prosecuted by low-power, high-initiative monarchies. Battle lines were fluid and mobile. World War I is a good example of a drawn-out conflict prosecuted by low-initiative, high-power nation-states. Battle lines were static and inert.

 

[Dachs]

I don't see why you are connecting government/bureaucratic actions with military capacity within a given war (not to mention your weird characterization of how the wars actually happened).

I'm also interested in learning how you would describe a revolutionary government with that kind of power/size system.

 

[Thlayli]

I don't see why you are connecting government/bureaucratic actions with military capacity within a given war (not to mention your weird characterization of how the wars actually happened).

I'm also interested in learning how you would describe a revolutionary government with that kind of power/size system.

Consider an initiative point as being useful for anything: A military action, a government reform, etc. In general, a tribal kingship will have an army suited to that government philosophy: Fast and small. An absolute monarchy will have an army that is (comparatively) large and slow.

Revolutions decrease power and increase initiative. This is why revolutionary states usually lose control of some territory during said revolution, and implement drastic reforms on the parts they DO directly control.

A revolutionary government would be high-initiative, low power. For example, the Revolutionary French government made sweeping changes, but outside of Paris and some major cities, counter-revolutionary conservatism remained high.

For another example, early revolutionary Bolshevik Russia suffered heavy territory losses to White forces due to its' low-power nature. As it stabilized and increased its' power, decreasing its initiative, the military effort improved.

 

[Dachs]

Consider an initiative point as being useful for anything: A military action, a government reform, etc. In general, a tribal kingship will have an army suited to that government philosophy: Fast and small. An absolute monarchy will have an army that is (comparatively) large and slow.

Which is why the Louisian French absolutist state was able to conduct major operations on all fronts, all at the same time, right? World War I Russia conducted operations all along the Eastern Front and in the Caucasus, but the comparatively democratized Greeks were only able to fight on one front at a time. This was because of the resources at hand, not their government systems.

Revolutions decrease power and increase initiative. This is why revolutionary states usually lose control of some territory during said revolution, and implement drastic reforms on the parts they DO directly control.

A revolutionary government would be high-initiative, low power. For example, the Revolutionary French government made sweeping changes, but outside of Paris and some major cities, counter-revolutionary conservatism remained high.

For another example, early revolutionary Bolshevik Russia suffered heavy territory losses to White forces due to its' low-power nature. As it stabilized and increased its' power, decreasing its initiative, the military effort improved.

Again, you're linking things I don't necessarily think should be linked, i.e. the acceptability of a given idea and the strength of a government in place. The Frederician state conducted simultaneous revisions of the law code, the military recruitment system, the economic underpinning of the state, and provided for relief from the Seven Years' War, all at the same time, all of which resulted in exactly zero rebellions or reduction of territory.

I think you're also confused on whether "power" refers to the ability to implement effective reforms or the ability to implement reforms without causing rebellion.

 

[Anonymoose]

So Bestshot and I were discussing a ZombieNES, with a few things to make it other than a shootingzombiesNES. Any ideas for types of Zombies, locations for this outbreak to occur, or perhaps ideas on how the economy would work after zombieism had taken out 99.999% of the population. Would it just be bartering? 99.999% seems like a lot, but that's more than enough to repopulate the planet, and would leave about 6 million people. Some of them would be children, or disabled and unable to care for themselves, so 4 million. Then there would be casualties caused by zombies, so 3 millionish? I was writing about it, but my mind has kind of hit a road block, and I need some outside influence to jumpstart. Thanks in advance for the assistance.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I think that you should start off midway through the outbreak... if you do run an NES like this. Too early on and it's too easy to contain (unless we're people who get stuck right in the middle of things during the beginning of the outbreak), too late and the sense of hopelessness becomes overwhelming.

 

[bombshoo]

I recommend reading World War Z by Max Brooks if you haven't.

 

[Vertinari118]

So Bestshot and I were discussing a ZombieNES, with a few things to make it other than a shootingzombiesNES. Any ideas for types of Zombies, locations for this outbreak to occur, or perhaps ideas on how the economy would work after zombieism had taken out 99.999% of the population. Would it just be bartering? 99.999% seems like a lot, but that's more than enough to repopulate the planet, and would leave about 6 million people. Some of them would be children, or disabled and unable to care for themselves, so 4 million. Then there would be casualties caused by zombies, so 3 millionish? I was writing about it, but my mind has kind of hit a road block, and I need some outside influence to jumpstart. Thanks in advance for the assistance.

First of all pick your pathogen and vector for transmission. This is normally ignored and just left as some kind of super virus but there are other more intriguing options. Its also affects who treatable the outbreak is, containable, where it starts etc. A rough list of pathogen types and possible vectors.

Parasite

Both a vector for transmission and a possible pathogen. Macroscopic worms or microscopic protozoa. Unlikely to spread fast early on and like to originate in the deepest darkest depths of Africa or Asia. Likely to be difficult to treat owing to the a less deep understanding of protozoa and disease causing parasites compared to bacteria or viruses.

Viruses

I doubt I need to continue so I won't.

Bacteria

I doubt bacteria could have a large enough neurological effect to cause zombieitsis but I might be wrong. Bacteria could in theory carry the virus and act as a vector.

Insects

This would allow the disease to spread quickly into more difficult to reach places, including possibly medical facilities. Insects are quite easy to massacre though. Probably confine the disease to one area but they could be a possible secondary vector.

Water and air

Always good for spreading a disease fast but you probably know all about this.

Bats and other rodents

Rodents have helped spread some of the largest plagues in history and would allow the disease to start and spread anywhere. Go figure.

Of course there are others. Just ask if you want more information and hopefully this should give you some ideas of how to spread your disease.

I would recommend the disease start off in a remote region and gain a foothold. Reports begin to filter back to the Western world of a new aliment for the Africans and we all go' ahh how sad' and do nothing. First Westerners die. The Western world begins to act. Scientists underestimate and succumb to the disease. It spreads and destroys all who try to stop it. Now you got yourself a pandemic.

Types of zombie. Well I always hate how zombies are undead, shambling monsters. They should look like you and me, a dead body is no use to a parasite until it is ready to complete its life-cycle. They should be faster and stronger to show the pathogen is causing neurological damage and removing the blocks the human brain puts on muscles. They should also be confused and irrational and extremely aggressive. Most importantly their decline should be a process, not instant, and should ultimately result in death.

Just my two cents, I hope it was helpful in some way.

 

[Shadowbound]

Nanomachines. That's where you should get your zombies. Anything can be explained with nanomachines.

 

[Anonymoose]

Awesome, guys. I enjoyed Brooks' Zombie Survival Guide, but haven't read WWZ. I like the parasite and insect idea, and may combine them. I was thinking about starting at the beginning, but LordIggy brings up a good point. Also, nanobots are pretty freaking fascinating, like the robots attached to bacteria, like in Michael Crichton's Prey. I really appreciate the feedback. So far, Bestshot and I have come up with only a few types of zombies:
1.) Shamblers- typical slow zombies
2.) Sprinters- running zombies, unnaturally fast
3.) Jumpers- bodies have mutated or changed to have massive legs for pouncing.
4.) Sirens-Mimic regular human vocalizations, like screams, and attract other zombies, and potentially people. When the regular zombies arrive, they hear this sound, but don't have the comprehension to understand that it's from another zombie. (This is kinda how they'd lump together as giant zombie hordes.)
5.) Hulks- Arms are massive, skin is thicker, etc. Tanks is the best word I can think of for them.
6.) I want a few more, or some new ideas for zombies.. zombified animals maybe.

 

[bombshoo]

Personally I think making animals immune could prove to be more interesting as it makes them potentially useful to humans.