New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Ekolite]

Very nice map, although its unusual in that it seems vertical rather then horizontal.

Also I disagree about the average length of NESes, I'd say more like 8-12 updates tbh. The idea of a NES that doesn't have updates is intriguing, but I'm not sure how practical it would be in some ways.

 

[SKILORD]

I think it would be better to pare down updates to their most essential components rather than abolish them altogether, make them short and easy, rather than not at all. Would require a very delicate hand though, to use these microupdates to keep things moving forwards without having to explain yourself too much, but it would probably require less time.

 

[Ekolite]

Yeah, and in that way the game could continue at a faster rate with probably at least one update a week, and would probably last a lot longer as the updates wouldn't become a strain on the time of the GM. I my experience you can start off a NES doing fairly brief updates but somehow they tend to get longer and longer as turns go by. Keeping them consistently short and snappy would be difficult I think.

And of course, some would say the quality would be reduced by very short updates.

 

[SKILORD]

I agree with the quality concern, hence my provision that a deft hand operate the thing. I am thinking right now with like a dozen sentence or two headlines and then the moderator retains control of the NPCs and moderates the game through their actions when it needs moderation (to create conflict where there is an absence or to reinforce (when they are well planned) or oppose (when they are not, or when they are overextending themselves) player actions. Then the moderator could write those interactions in a paragraph or two on a less scheduled basis (but never to interact with any player story that has been posted less than two days ago). Right now this is mostly geared to more individual RPG style games (with Mutant NES ( :'( ) and Ether ( ) I have had that model in mind), and it would probably take some reworking for a more traditional nation state style game (when I was typing i out I kept thinking it sounded too much like the CS system in Civ V, although it would have more range and capacity than that system obviously).

But I think that if you incorporated NPC's more heavily into the moderating process, possibly on a more rolling basis than the regular updates, it would prevent the update size from dramatically rising, not because it would cut the problem out, but because it would spread the load of moderation more evenly in both schedule and writing style, allowing you to occasionally come in and moderate in a legitimate fashion (or at least one that is easier to perceive as legitimate) a couple of paragraphs at a time at your own leisure.

 

[Starlife]

Very nice map, although its unusual in that it seems vertical rather then horizontal.

Thanks, Ekolite. In my opinion, most good fantasy maps are oriented this way. I like the ambiguity of whether or not this is a round planet or simply a continent in the middle of a vast sea.

I agree with the quality concern, hence my provision that a deft hand operate the thing. I am thinking right now with like a dozen sentence or two headlines and then the moderator retains control of the NPCs and moderates the game through their actions when it needs moderation (to create conflict where there is an absence or to reinforce (when they are well planned) or oppose (when they are not, or when they are overextending themselves) player actions. Then the moderator could write those interactions in a paragraph or two on a less scheduled basis (but never to interact with any player story that has been posted less than two days ago). Right now this is mostly geared to more individual RPG style games (with Mutant NES ( :'( ) and Ether ( ) I have had that model in mind), and it would probably take some reworking for a more traditional nation state style game (when I was typing i out I kept thinking it sounded too much like the CS system in Civ V, although it would have more range and capacity than that system obviously).

But I think that if you incorporated NPC's more heavily into the moderating process, possibly on a more rolling basis than the regular updates, it would prevent the update size from dramatically rising, not because it would cut the problem out, but because it would spread the load of moderation more evenly in both schedule and writing style, allowing you to occasionally come in and moderate in a legitimate fashion (or at least one that is easier to perceive as legitimate) a couple of paragraphs at a time at your own leisure.

I like these words. In Ether, I am trying to make it so players post rolling stories and move their own characters along as much as possible - without the hand of the referee. I come in to do updates each season, just guiding the stories into certain new directions, which players can choose to take or not. It allows a lot of freedom, but also that restriction that in order for anything to happen, the player must actually write a story or post their actions (how do you walk without moving your legs?).

When I said an update-free NES, I guess I didn't mean completely update-free. What I meant is that I think it is reasonable in a NES for players to write as much as a referee, just like in pen-and-paper games the players do as much work in the end as the referee. Otherwise, players are just sending quick bullet-form orders, and the referee is the one who has to write an essay each update. That is probably why some NES die after so few updates - because it is a lot of work for one referee to write all that update info.

So what I meant is that the NES could keep itself moving by having a time schedule, and players need to post stuff in-character they are doing instead of just sending orders (except for private, secretive stuff) - and then everyone can see what is going on and the referee can guide storylines and NPCs and other things that need guiding (which is a lot of work within itself) - and then updates do not become as massive or expansive because basically the referee has been managing the NES throughout the timeframe (so for example, it'd be like me saying two real life weeks in Ether = one game-time season... then I try to post for NPCs as much as I can during that time, but when the season is over, I still post a little update that includes stuff I didn't get to... just giving an example here by the way, I am not changing Ether to do this). Heck, it doesn't even need a timeline - I could just say, "Ok everyone - Spring will begin on this date!"

Of course every NES is different, so this probably wouldn't apply to everything. But I just see a fantasy thing like MoM or other kinda RPG NES like SKILORD said doing well with this format. Because then, quests or storylines can be moved along kinda quickly, while more major world-changing events could be put into "updates".

 

[Starlife]

OK, for this long-term idea that I want to gradually flesh out, I am thinking that each player is a Wizard (as I wrote about before). So because of this, each player would need to create a Wizard profile. Here is an example of what I have so far:

Wizard Name / Player Name
Type: Type of Wizard.
Starting Race: Basically your racial preference throughout the game, though other races can be conquered.
Spellbooks: Chaos (#), Death (#), Life (#), Nature (#), Sorcery (#)
Alignment: Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Evil, Neutral Good, Neutral, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Evil
Leadership: Iron Fist, Benevolent Lord, Council Leader
Physical Description: What does your Wizard look like?

Each player is a Wizard who has come through the Nether Sphere to the world of Ethereal. Each Wizard is thousands of years old and has explored many planes of the Nether Sphere, yet Ethereal is rich in mana, so all Wizards have gradually flocked to this world and are seeking to expand their empires across Ethereal.

Each Wizard must pick what types of spells they are capable of learning (their magic focus):

(Arcane: A general school of magic.)
Chaos: Warps subjects and spews forth destructive energies.
Death: Drains life forces and raises undead.
Life: Heals and protects.
Nature: Turns the weather against foes.
Sorcery: Bends air to its will and seeks to subvert other magics.

Wizards do not focus in Arcane magic, because it is a general school and all Wizards can learn those spells.

Instead of just choosing one kind of magic, I am thinking that you can divide 10 spell ranks between the 5 schools of magic (not including Arcane). This is staying true to MoM, more or less. So for example 7 spellbooks in Chaos and 3 in Death. You would thus be more proficient in Chaos magic, but would still be capable of learning some Death-oriented spells. You could even divide it so that you have 2 spell ranks in each category, and so you are a jack-of-all-trades, but more powerful spells of a single category would not be available to you. And dividing up these spell ranks only indicates what spells you can research. So researching spells would be a big part of the game, or finding them in dungeons and ruins and stuff.

One note: A Wizard cannot put spell ranks in both Death and Life. Only one or the other.

And then some special Wizard types (Archmage, Channeler, Artificer, etc.) would be available. You would spend some of your starting spell ranks to decide what kind of Wizard you want to be - or you can leave it blank and simply remain a Wizard (and not use up your spell ranks). Still thinking about this.

I also want to have the concept of heroes/champions. These are basically characters that your Wizard can employ. I also really want to include Fame/Unrest, and other ideas like that. But I don't want to complicate things too much (if anyone knows me)!

Some races:
Barbarians (Nature/Death)
Gnolls (Life)
Halflings (Nature)
High Elves (Nature/Chaos)
High Men (Life/Nature)
Lizardmen (Nature/Chaos)
Goblins (Death/Chaos)
Nomads (Sorcery)
Orcs (Sorcery/Death)
Beastmen (Sorcery/Nature)
Dark Elves (Death)
Draconians (Life/Chaos)
Dwarves (Life/Sorcery)
Ogres (Chaos)

Quite similar to MoM, except a few changes: Lizardmen are Nature/Chaos, while Death/Chaos has been changed to Goblins (which are not one of the main races in MoM)... a couple other different things. No more Klackons... changed Trolls to Ogres...

The way this would work is that you have a starting race, which is basically the race of your first city (and perhaps your Wizard's race as well). Then you expand from there, but obtaining the loyalty of other races will depend largely upon what kind of Wizard you are. You can also take over cities/towns by force, acting as a lord with a strict iron fist. You will need to scout out what types of settlements are where, and you will need to find sources of mana for your magic types. The more mana you get, the more you can research spells you can use.

I think I want to focus on spells and not so much improvements for your empire. But I think connecting settlements with roads can be fun for peaceful players - and so can constructing certain improvements. We'll see what I come up with for this part!

On the profile area, I have what kind of leader you are listed. I was thinking of three different ones. You could be a Wizard that wants to conquer tons of different races and exploit them - basically a tyrant. Or you can be a grand uniter, creating a council of races and trying to have some sort of "democratic" grouping of the cities you have conquered / brought under your protection. Or you could be in the middle of those two extremes (Benevolent Lord).

Still working on hammering all of these details out. Like I said, a work in progress I want to gradually flesh out.

 

[Northen Wolf]

I like that font you used, too. Is it a standard font or one you found?

That's HP PSG, front background is blurred, a bit transparent white border.

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About updates - Updates are way to tell the story of a NES. An update-less NES is possible, but players tend to focus on winning game and beating 10 000 men army with 10 men in their stories/orders. Main idea behind updates is to let players to fight between themselves and limit the control behind their actions, making everyone equal - otherwise some would have billions of demon portals (who do no harm to their citizens, cuz their citizens are l33t and sparkle) some would have elite ninjas that conquered entire world before any update would have began and some would have simple farming village.

---

Check out DragoNES for more character based NES. Or DoomNES. or even NWolfNES.

 

[Starlife]

That's HP PSG, front background is blurred, a bit transparent white border.

---
About updates - Updates are way to tell the story of a NES. An update-less NES is possible, but players tend to focus on winning game and beating 10 000 men army with 10 men in their stories/orders. Main idea behind updates is to let players to fight between themselves and limit the control behind their actions, making everyone equal - otherwise some would have billions of demon portals (who do no harm to their citizens, cuz their citizens are l33t and sparkle) some would have elite ninjas that conquered entire world before any update would have began and some would have simple farming village.

---

Check out DragoNES for more character based NES. Or DoomNES. or even NWolfNES.

No one is saying no updates. Just saying that maybe they could be shortened a bit, while the referee handles the issues you speak of and NPCs in between updates. And the NES doesn't have to focus on updates only, but on the efforts of players getting their characters or whatever to make decisions within the game-world outside of the update scheme. I understand power-gaming issues, but that's why the referee would exist, putting his/her hand into the NES whenever necessary. Still have updates, yes, to merge all of the actions and create a sort of summary of past events specific to the players - but also allow movement to occur beyond updates. Which happens now, through stories. It's just that the never-ending-story becomes more of a game which becomes more of bullet form orders, and then the referee writing huge updates - with very little of the player's overall efforts being seen by other players. It just seems off-balanced for a collective story to depend so much upon that pesky, all-inclusive update, that it makes a little bit of sense to include other elements such as quests or missions or something that can happen in between updates. That's why I am saying this would mostly be for RPG-type things, modeled on pen-and-papers or other such types of games. No idea about strict historical nation-building games. Probably would be a lot more difficult... and I see why updates are useful for such games.

 

[KaiserElectric]

I was tossing around an idea about an NES where the players play as gods in an Olympian-esque panthenon. While the gods have their own rivalries, the humans would be down below in NPC nations, which fight and wage war for world domination. The idea would be that the gods can generate fervor points (or something else to resemble currency) and use it to grant their followers bonuses (production bonuses or mythological creatures to aid them in battle) and give curses to enemies (plagues and famine). In essence, whoever ends up with the most worshippers will win, plain and simple.

Since I'm a total nub, I'll leave this idea here for anyone who wants to use it for their own NES. It's a good core concept, I think, and one open to interpretation.

 

[SKILORD]

That is a pretty cool idea, were you thinking Greek though? I think it might be more fun to go with a Valhalla twist on it, then you could countdown to Ragnarok.

 

[Milarqui]

I think something like that was already done. Also, it would require for someone to develop a Pantheon with a bit of more equalness than the Greek or the Viking Pantheon, or make the "Father of the Gods" an NPC.

 

[Adrogans]

It was done before sort of...but I got frustrated because son many people kept taking the same "area of influence."

Course Nations didn't exactly exist in that NES either...

 

[thomas.berubeg]

I miss the Godneses of yor. they were rather fun.

 

[Adrogans]

They were very hit or miss for me.

 

[KaiserElectric]

Yes, I think that the NES would need an NPC king of the Gods to prevent uneven gameplay. It could even add another component to the game, with you comepeting to win favor over both thr King of the Gods and the people.

 

[SKILORD]

If you went Norse then you could totally do it that way.

And then when Ragnarok comes he gets eaten by Fenrir.

 

[LDiCesare]

Depending on the era, Greek gods have had their own issues too.
The Norse have a ragnarok fight, but the Greeks have titanomachia and gigantomachia, the difference being that the current gods win the fights, but the titans were gods too and lost to the current Olympians. Plus the world will be destroyed in fire in the greek myths.
Most myths pit enemies against the gods, and the latter don't always win, it's not a norse sepecificity. The Irish Tuatha dé danann, after defeating Fir Bolg and Fomorés, lost their island to Milesians, having to retreat in sidhe lands. Hindu myths have the world cycliclally destroyed in order to be reborn, but there are crisis times when adharma threatens the cycle, and so on.

 

[Starlife]

Here is my latest update to a fantasy-esque map. Comments, suggestions, etc. always welcome.

 

[Luckymoose]

That map is so ugly that it doesn't warrant a watermark.

 

[Northen Wolf]

That map is so ugly that it doesn't warrant a watermark.

LIES! Me likey map. Altho I agree with lucky, watermark is generally a bad idea in my interwebz code of laws. NESers, in general, allow their maps to be used for NESes, why keep something good to yourself ? .