NOTW L: The Immortals [Game Thread]

[Sprig]

Tally: Please double check.

Accusations:
Askthepizzaguy (Frozen In Ice; The Black Knigh; choxorn; verarde
TheBlackKnigh (spaceman98; Nintz
Frozen in Ice (Askthepizzaguy;
KingMorgan (Visorslash;
Visorslash (KingMorgan;
Catharsis (Zack;

Chaos Mana in Purple
KingMorgan (Askthepizzaguy;
Exar (Frozen In Ice

Body Mana in brown
Catharsis (Askthepizzaguy; Frozen In Ice
The Black Knigh (The Black Knigh

Air Mana in Gray
KingMorgan (Askthepizzaguy; KingMorgan; Frozen In Ice

 

[Zack]

I'm willing to bet at least one of them is scum.

You've said something like this about half of the living players. It's hard to take any of your accusations very seriously when you're dishing them out so frequently and casually, and never with much reason behind it.

 

[Visorslash]

You've said something like this about half of the living players. It's hard to take any of your accusations very seriously when you're dishing them out so frequently and casually, and never with much reason behind it.

Yes I have. Go read what I said on KingMorgan before you dismiss what I say first.

 

[Catharsis]

Tally: Please double check.

Accusations:
Askthepizzaguy (Frozen In Ice; The Black Knigh; choxorn;
TheBlackKnigh (spaceman98; Nintz
Frozen in Ice (Askthepizzaguy;
KingMorgan (Visorslash;
Visorslash (KingMorgan;
Catharsis (Zack;

{I've got an extra vote for ATPG on my tally, from Verarde. Did he unvote and I missed it?}

 

[Zack]

You've emulated my reads, placed me on it, and then voted me, your 5th read?

Yes, very compelling.

I can't take you seriously when you always and repeatedly speak with absolute certainty that so-and-so is definitely scum based on such weak, circumstantial evidence.

 

[Visorslash]

Yes, very compelling.

I can't take you seriously when you always and repeatedly speak with absolute certainty that so-and-so is definitely scum based on such weak, circumstantial evidence.

At least I'm trying this game.

What are your top three scum leans?

 

[Catharsis]

{OOC: Attempt at some thoughts. It's late o'clock here so if you see any inconsistencies, point 'em out please. Top three scumleads are now (1) Winston (2) TBK (3) Zack, see below. And my final vote today is on The Black Knigh. Chaos to me, body to me, air to ATPG.

The main concern that I have is that as of yet I have no idea how usurpers win. We know that they don't kill (if they do kill then they've kept quiet about that so far); we know that spells can be performed using mana (the VIP and his Sheaim diplo score restoring spell, using entropy and death mana) so mana trading could be the key, but what do I know? And as of yet, no-one's attacked Exar. There's not going to be a trail of bodies leading to these scums. So I haven't got any real way of pegging people as usurper other than 'probably not demon, but still seems scummy'. We kinda need the demons' help here. O scaly brethren, fancy nobbling a few usurpers for us tonight?

Askthepizzaguy

His roleclaim's bunkum. I could've been a Day 2 lynch or something, and then ATPG would have no chance of winning for the rest of the game. But I wager it's bunkum in that special ATPG way that bunkum sometimes is. And I don't want to say any more than that for fear of ruining it. (Although it's worth saying that Seon noted ATPG as having 'neutral alignment' on Day 4.)

He's probably not a demon. On Day 3 he votes Sun Mana to Kennigit before he reveals publicly that he has it and what it does, so ATPG both knew Kenn had it and was willing to enhance his power.

He may be a usurper. If TBK dies and turns up usurper that puts a questionmark over his head, since he was the first to ask for 'an expert on identifying mana' and orchestrated the 'show mana to TBK' piece. He does claim to have had something stolen himself but that could be a cover.

There's also something not quite right about these sentences: "I will be keeping the remaining Death Mana on me personally. I will have to be attacked, or they will have to visibly steal it from me." That isn't generally how thieves work. I don't know what he'd hope to achieve by saying that though.

He seems to have been fair in mana dealings, I haven't heard any complaints anyway. He wasn't entirely honest with me concerning the mechanics of a certain type of mana, but I'll accept that as a misunderstanding.

I don't want him lynched tonight.

Visorslash

Like ATPG he looked to be helping Kennigit out with Sun Mana prior to Kenn's public reveal. Spins him non-demon to me.

He's killing a lot of townies with this vampire vig plan. But at least he's doing something.

The main thing I want to know from Visor is why he keeps stating this 'there is no vampire traitor' argument. I assume he means demon there by the way. The reason seems to be that because vamps feed at night, and you can only do one thing at night, all Visor needs to do is get all vamps to tell him who they fed on at night and they're all in the clear. There's a touch of PIS here, because who says all of the demons need to submit a kill order? My guess is there's at least one non-vampire demon, which would get around Visor's plan, but they don't all have to be non-vamps.

The other thing that counts against him is his torrent of useless votes. By a useful vote, I mean one likely to direct a lynch at all. Why switch from Backwards Logic to Bad Player at the end of Day 4? He's done nothing but useless votes all game long and I would accuse him of flying under the radar if he weren't so emphatically not doing that.

But yeah. Same as ATPG. Probably not demon, as likely as anyone to be a usurper, not worth killing at the moment.

TheLastDays

Here's something I found. On Day 3, he invites an attack from Kennigit with his Sun Mana, to test the claim against Seon. That could make him Seon's scum partner trying to clear him, but Seon's in the ground already, innocent as they come.

It could also make him not a demon, or a very gutsy demon if he is one.

I have no opinion on whether he's a usurper or not. We haven't heard enough from him. Can we see a leads list please TLD?

Winston Hughes

To restate my lame metagame reason for suspecting Winston: it is often the case that the first inactive players to be replaced are the inactive scum. Unlike Secret Scribe, Darth Caesar didn't ask to be replaced (at least not publicly) which nudges Winston ahead of Ekolite in my lame cheesy suspicion ratings.

To be fair, I've no other reason to suspect him. But that's because he's said very little. He did vote a fire mana to himself and later showed interest in metamagic mana. I've heard it said that he plans to turn his fire mana into something more useful. But can we discount the possibility that he wants to turn some other mana he has into more fire mana? I guess we'd see if he starts attacking people with it, but this brings back the whole 'we don't know how usurpers win' problem. Unsubstantiated theorising but I have nothing else to go on.

Ekolite

There's the whole 'scum being replaced' thing, that counts against him. What he has over Winston is that he hasn't been fiddling around with fire mana. At the moment he seems barely more active than the inactive guy he replaced but I've heard he's been more cooperative in private, although I don't know the details.

johnhughthom

Shares my secondary goal, which is, for your information, 'Eliminate demon faction'. I'd feel guilty about sharing john's info if he wasn't completely inactive.

To my mind, john is the least likely person here to be a demon (except myself) and I hope Visor reconsiders his plan to vig him. As to whether he's a usurper, well my other teammate was Takhisis and he WAS a usurper, so we can go two ways here. On one hand, there's proof that people with innocent-sounding secondary VCs can be scums; on the other, do I really get two usurpers as teammates? Really, Sprig?

Frozen In Ice

Has been good for explanations today and I'm rather reconsidering my opinion of him. I'd love to know what Backwards Logic's 'meta-gamey reason' for voting for him over choxorn on Day 2 was, given that BL and Frozen shared a goal (BL told me this). He also used the dodgy 'I'm a vampire feeding at night so I'm not a demon' defense. I get edgy when people do that. Unlike the two other espousers of that theory (ATPG and Visorslash) he does have early Kennigit sun mana votes to back up his non-demonness.

We NEED the three top scum leans from you, Frozen. Visor asked and you have not yet answered (publicly). Your whole thing today has been defending yourself.

I notice also that he's voting the chaos mana to Exar today. Watch out! A thief's about! Don't you realise the danger here?

Nintz

The basis of my suspicion of Nintz was entirely rooted on Frozen's vote on Day 2. Now that Frozen's explained that to a good degree, I've no reason to suspect Nintz, at all. This is just gut feeling, but what he says to me is townie as hell. He's a very good actor, if he's scum.

The Black Knigh

I'd love to know what he's actually claiming to be able to do. Because it can't be this simple to oust a thief, but... these things have to be noted!

My initial reading of him was 'normal guy with PG to see all of the mana types'. That could still be the case. I may have overstated the effect the whole 'show TBK your mana' campaign has had, because the mana that have been stolen so far are ATPG's death (publicly known), Kennigit's sun (I think, because only two sun mana were removed from Kenn's charred corpse on Day 4 and we know he had three - the fact that he had this was publicly known), and Exar's death (publicly known).

But he also claims to have spirit mana. As ATPG says, it's a scummy-looking mana type.

I also have a note here that he tried to vote mind mana to Verarde on day 3. Why Verarde?

All in all, I would be willing to throw my vote behind a TBK lynch today.

These are going to start getting shorter now because I'm tired.

Zack

He hid for three whole days. I can see Zack doing this as scum, because he always gets N1 scanned. He also kept voting for Seon well after it was revealed as a mislynch (on Day 3 I mean, not Day 4).

From my perspective there's a few points against Zack and not much for him. Talk to me Z-da-beast.

spaceman98

Seems (cautiously) townie to me. Throws out a lot of theories and participates. I'm loath to off him, currently.

Bad Player

His whole strategy seems to be based around obtaining metamagic mana for various reasons. Again, 'we don't know how usurpers win'.

choxorn

Bandwagons, bandwagons, bandwagons, nothing else. He normally offers more.

Verarde

Says little. No idea. This is another one of those 'talk to me' situations.

KingMorgan

Doesn't seem to like the idea that vampires can be demons...

Stuck in Pi

Only shows up when he's accused, or fed on by vamps.

ChineseWarlord, PaulusIII, classical_hero, kill fire

I got nothin'. I vaguely remember being suspicious of kill fire early on Wednesday morning (real-time) but I can't remember why. Paulus inactivity is worrying. I don't know how CW 'gave up' his mana at one point in the thread. No thoughts whatsoever on classical, but why isn't he on the vampire vig list? (Same with CW actually.)}

 

[Zack]

He hid for three whole days. I can see Zack doing this as scum, because he always gets N1 scanned.

OOC: I have never, ever gone inactive like this as scum, only to come back later and become active. I don't use lame metagame tactics like this to try and throw suspicion off of me.

He also kept voting for Seon well after it was revealed as a mislynch (on Day 3 I mean, not Day 4).

Talk about hindsight being 20/20. His defense against Kennigit was weak - "Trust me, I took no damage" is the same thing he would've said as a demon (and whatever he said publicly, Kennigit privately confided that he did not trust Seon at all and planned to switch his vote back to Seon). Add to that his ability claim that he can stop infinite lynches - WTH kind of innocent ability is that? This is a lame argument. Where is the angle/motivation for demon Zack, here? Why does Visorslash get off easy for vigging and feeding on countless innocents and NO SCUM, yet I get dirty looks for being wrong about a suspect?

From my perspective there's a few points against Zack and not much for him.

Right back at you, birdman.

 

[Frozen In Ice]

OOC: First I would like to note that I am nearly 100% certain that the thief is a scum of some sort. I actually didn't know that a sun mana had been stolen, but between that and the death mana from the confirmed innocent Exar, the thief clearly doesn't have our best interests at heart. Catharsis, you do bring up a good point about what the usurpers could possibly want. It appears they are unable to kill, so I would not doubt if their victory condition was dependent on collecting mana of some sort or a time-dependent one (perhaps we have to win before that hinted vampire disease reaches us). If it is a mana-based one, they probably need enough of a certain type in order to win. It seems to me then that the meta-magic mana would be vital in this pursuit, and that having a stealing ability would almost be necessary for that goal to be achievable. Looking back fos: Bad Player, Winston Hughes, and Zack as they have all made plays for the meta-magic mana.

Looking back, I feel like more importance should be placed on the fact that there was no demon kill on night three. I think we should have everyone say what they were doing night three if possible. With those who have alibis we should confirm as many as possible, and then look to those who were inactive around night three or who have no confirmable alibi for night three for a possible demon.

fos: TBK as his mana expert claim does seem fairly fishy. Finally, I think it is best to not trust ATPG. He needs to die today.

 

[Visorslash]

Frozen, three scum leans.

 

[Frozen In Ice]

Bad player (For the above reason and for flying under the radar),
Ekolite (for flying under the radar but still semi-active),
TBK (see above)

This is other than ATPG who I want to lynch today

 

[spaceman98]

OOC: First I would like to note that I am nearly 100% certain that the thief is a scum of some sort. I actually didn't know that a sun mana had been stolen, but between that and the death mana from the confirmed innocent Exar, the thief clearly doesn't have our best interests at heart. Catharsis, you do bring up a good point about what the usurpers could possibly want. It appears they are unable to kill, so I would not doubt if their victory condition was dependent on collecting mana of some sort or a time-dependent one (perhaps we have to win before that hinted vampire disease reaches us). If it is a mana-based one, they probably need enough of a certain type in order to win. It seems to me then that the meta-magic mana would be vital in this pursuit, and that having a stealing ability would almost be necessary for that goal to be achievable. Looking back fos: Bad Player, Winston Hughes, and Zack as they have all made plays for the meta-magic mana.

Looking back, I feel like more importance should be placed on the fact that there was no demon kill on night three. I think we should have everyone say what they were doing night three if possible. With those who have alibis we should confirm as many as possible, and then look to those who were inactive around night three or who have no confirmable alibi for night three for a possible demon.

fos: TBK as his mana expert claim does seem fairly fishy. Finally, I think it is best to not trust ATPG. He needs to die today.

Night 3 I was doing the same thing as I did every other night: preforming a diplomatic mission to raise the diplomacy score between Calabim and my homeland.

Also, I thought a bit more about the TBK lynch and have come to the conclusion that it may not have been that good of an idea. He has been helpful to the town in making the mana list public (whereas he could have hidden it, supposedly from scum) and he has talked about mana types that are not publicly known (another pro-town move). Moreover, since everyone started the game with mana types that they could not use, the fact that he had a spirit mana actually seems like a good thing: he had no use for it. Coupled with the fact that all manas stolen so far were ones that everyone knew about, I am more inclined to think that someone (perhaps Pizza) was manipulating TBK for their own nefarious proposes, rather than TBK being himself evil.

I would like to hear more from choxorn. Normally, he is more productive than he has been here.

Regarding the Pizzaguy lynch, I would like to hear why Pizza hid his VC from me when I inquired about connections between him and Catharsis, but I doubt that Pizza is scum, since the thieves are probably anti-town and Pizza is probably not on the same side as the thieves (Unless Pizza faked being stolen from, in order to smuggle the mana off to his comrade?)

 

[Frozen In Ice]

Night three I fed on Ekolite.

Exar I'm going to take a gamble and hope Catharsis can protect the chaos mana from the thief.

 

[spaceman98]

Night three I fed on Ekolite.

Exar I'm going to take a gamble and hope Catharsis can protect the chaos mana from the thief.

Wait, can't the thief steal from anyone? After all, Kennigit and Pizzaguy were both powerful victims of the thief?

Exar should have the chaos mana. That way, we know if its been stolen, and theirs no risk of it being in the wrong hands before then

 

[spaceman98]

also, I trust Catharsis slightly more than I trust TBK for the body mana, though remember, this is Catharsis's second body mana

 

[Frozen In Ice]

I think the idea is that Catharsis can pass it on the someone else, someone the thief won't know about, while Exar is unwilling to move his mana to someone else.

 

[spaceman98]

I think the idea is that Catharsis can pass it on the someone else, someone the thief won't know about, while Exar is unwilling to move his mana to someone else.

Oh. Catharsis can you confirm this?


Exar

 

[choxorn]

OOC: I've been busy the past two weeks with midterms and random other crap, if you want to know why I haven't been doing much lately. Also, the past in-game day or two has mostly been Pizza talking and other people talking about Pizza, and that contains almost nothing useful for me to analyze.

I've also been fairly active behind the scenes, as some of you can attest to.

 

[Bad Player]

I'm in a difficult position because I haven't voted yet (I have been looking at mana votes to try and work out who is working with whom). I think Pizza and The Black Knigh need to make their cases because they are front runners at the moment.

 

[Bad Player]

I read over the tally and Pizza has 4 votes against him: Verade, Frozen in Ice, choxorn, The Black Knigh.

The Black Knigh has 2 votes against him.

It makes no difference to the outcome but I want to say that an experienced leader such as AskThePizzaGuy should not make so many mistakes (including getting the thief suspect wrong).