Plan for Mosque III...

[Ajidica]

Does it even matter that it is a mosque?

I remind you again, there is a chapel in the Pentagon where muslims can worship, and muslims have already worshiped for a year where community center for peace, interfaith tolerance, and oureach that will include a mosque will be built.

 

[Mise]

No, I object to the planners building a mosque that close in proximity to ground zero.

The reason sounds dumb to you because you have been arguing its a freedom of religion thing when it simply hasnt been. Ever.

But Muslims already worship that close in proximity to ground zero. Muslims already go to the exact building that the Cordoba House development will replace, to worship Allah -- they just don't call the building a mosque. It's okay for them to use that building as a place of worship, just as long as they don't call it a mosque?

 

[Murky]

It really just boils down to Islamophobia. It's somewhat embarrassing if you really think about it.

 

[Truronian]

I meant that he thought it was offensive, and I happen to agree, and while I don't think its the reason these Muslims are doing this, it is Muslim custom to build a mosque near a great victory.

If you don't think that's why they are doing it then why do you think it's offensive?

The majority of Americans polled think it is. That is not enough reason that the government should step in, but it is enough reason for the owners themselves to reconsider.

The majority of Manhattan residents approve of the mosque. Does it matter what people from outside the area think?

 

[Ajidica]

Thats basicaly what the BBC anchor said on the world news segment I watched. However, it was awsome in one part where they cut to street speaches, one anti-community center for peace, interfaith tolerance, and oureach that will include a mosque speaker had an awsome line "Thar will be Mooslim Ay-Rabs thar." (Pronuncial intact) while wearing a hat with the american flag* on it. A person standing next to him had a sign saying "Islam=Terrorism". Trust BBC to mock rednecks the best, all the while talking in BBC English.

*Am I the only one who gets annoyed at clothing with a flag pattern on it? Why should a symbol of our nation be reduced to a t-shirt that gets food droped on it?

 

[Mr. Dictator]

So what I've gathered is it's ok for the media to whip this up into a storm in the general public because the media has whipped this up into a storm in the general public?

Would Jesus condone using public pressure? Public pressure that, from the story of the coptic christians, has possibility of turning violent? I guarantee if this story went off the radar for a week or two, most Americans would forget about it. It's one of the good and terrible things of our culture.

 

[warpus]

No, I object to the planners building a mosque that close in proximity to ground zero.

The reason sounds dumb to you because you have been arguing its a freedom of religion thing when it simply hasnt been. Ever.

Why don't you have a similar objection to the Muslim prayer chapel inside the Pentagon, which is only steps away from the site where many people died as a result of a 9/11 attack?

Where is our outrage, MobBoss?

 

[Theige]

Hmmm. The planners have referred to it as a mosque, the major media all refer to it as a mosque. Of course its a mosque. A really nice mosque, but still a mosque.

Its official name is "Park51." Its original name was "Cordoba House"

Just as YMCAs are not Churches, and the 92nd Street Y isn't a Jewish Temple, Park51 is not going to be a Mosque.

How you can get to page 25 of the third thread without picking up on basic facts such as these is incredibly discouraging.

 

[Quackers]

I'm confused, why don't people understand that by pressuring, marginalising, treating Muslims with suspisicion, and treating like suspected terrorists and the constant negative press about them, will surely push more young Muslims, most likely males, to become involved in terrorism?

This chain reaction is unavoidable (unfortunately).

 

[.Shane.]

No, I object to the planners building a mosque that close in proximity to ground zero.

So, would you argue that there should be no Catholic churches near schools or playgrounds?

Since some Christians have murdered doctors in cold blood should we make sure no churches are within 1 mile of a hospital or doctor's office?

Since some men have raped some women should all men be kept at least 100 feet away from women (or at least from any woman who's been a victim)?

Do you object to the Muslim prayer center (or whatever its called) in the Pentagon? Do you object to the other, more seedy businesses that are close to Ground Zero?

 

[Ajidica]

Or the fact Muslims have been worshiping at the future location of Park51 for the past year because their original mosque wasn't big enough?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I have been absent from these threads, but haven't ignored the issue.

It's come to my attention that the plans to build this Mosque have been on the tables for more than 5 years, and the biggest issues for a while was whether the community centre aka mosque should have adequate facilities to accommodate handicapped people. No objections were raised by the community it's built in, nor various other organisations (not even Jewish ones). What this was going to be was just another building. People in the area were glad that one of the properties around ground zero was going to be occupied. It seems that the blocks surrounding ground zero have been avoided like the plague by contractors. That's why the Cordoba Initiative was able to buy it for scraps. That is until Stop Islamificiation of America got a whiff of this and decided to harness public outrage and make a big deal out of this.

Well, SIOA got what they wanted. A non-issue blown straight out of proportions. The argument whether this wouldn't help to diversify Muslims and non-Muslims was raised. Now just look at the name Stop Islamification of America, and think: what would their motives be? Just think, if SIOA wouldn't have made a big deal out of this, wouldn't have alerted the media, what would have been the effect?

Answer: nothing at all. The high horse the Cordoba Initiative is riding on is too high. One simple community centre is not going to alter perceptions. The moral outrage the opposition is claiming to have is empty rhetoric.

You might want to google the name Pamela Geller. Because you're being sock puppets for that witch. (As am I, make no mistake I am not claiming to be the voice of reason here. I'm just as much the sucker)

Anyway, thread III already eh? And halfway down to IV? I admit, I do admire your enthusiasm. Well, good luck convincing the other side of your point of view. I'm sure they'll get it eventually

 

[nonconformist]

So, would you argue that there should be no Catholic churches near schools or playgrounds?

Since some Christians have murdered doctors in cold blood should we make sure no churches are within 1 mile of a hospital or doctor's office?

Since some men have raped some women should all men be kept at least 100 feet away from women (or at least from any woman who's been a victim)?

Do you object to the Muslim prayer center (or whatever its called) in the Pentagon? Do you object to the other, more seedy businesses that are close to Ground Zero?

Your logic and rational thought have absolutely no right to be anywhere this close to the topic.

ITS TOO SOON

 

[JerichoHill]

I'm just going to repost this, because Mobboss has reposted the same argument ad nauseum

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.
-Ron Paul (R) TX

 

[MagisterCultuum]

*Am I the only one who gets annoyed at clothing with a flag pattern on it? Why should a symbol of our nation be reduced to a t-shirt that gets food droped on it?

From what I've heard back in the 60s and 70s wearing the flag on clothing was considered nearly as disrespectful and unpatriotic as burning it in effigy. I remember when I was a kid in the mid 1990s my parents said that wearing the flag's colors was patriotic but actually having stars and stripes on a garment was disrespectful. They seem to have forgotten about that a few years ago though, as they haven't complained about it in a long time and I've seen my dad wear a US flag T-shirt on occasion (although he really doesn't wear T-shirts much at all). I think flag clothing made the final jump from unAmerican to Patriotic right after 9/11.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I had an American Flag t-shirt in the 80's. Big red, white and blue "America" above it.

 

[KaiserElectric]

So, would you argue that there should be no Catholic churches near schools or playgrounds?

Since some Christians have murdered doctors in cold blood should we make sure no churches are within 1 mile of a hospital or doctor's office?

Since some men have raped some women should all men be kept at least 100 feet away from women (or at least from any woman who's been a victim)?

Do you object to the Muslim prayer center (or whatever its called) in the Pentagon? Do you object to the other, more seedy businesses that are close to Ground Zero?

Why are you making such blanket statements to disprove a fair and honest opinion?

Personaly, I think it is rather tasteless to build a Mosque that close to Ground Zero.

Now before you go off on me about how "offensive" I'm being, let me just state that I do not go against the building of a mosque in general. I understand that the terrorist attacks at Ground Zero were perpetrated by a radical minority of the Islamic faith. That doesn't make the mosque any more appropriate though.

Look at it this way; say you have a friend who had most of his familiy murdered by a local criminal cell. Would it be appropriate to build a statue in honor of the cell near your friend's house? Likewise, would it be appropriate to build anything associated with Islam near Ground Zero?

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Look at it this way; say you have a friend who had most of his familiy murdered by a local criminal cell. Would it be appropriate to build a statue in honor of the cell near your friend's house? Likewise, would it be appropriate to build anything associated with Islam near Ground Zero?

lrn2analogy

unless you're insinuating the cordoba house is linked to al qaeda...

 

[.Shane.]

@MC and Ziggy.... there's alot out there about how inappropriate and disrespectful it is to use the nation's flag on or as clothing, etc...

The lack of taste and respect showed by those who do so or fly it on their car antenna till it disintegrates over time is unfortunate, esp. given how many of these types are so vociferous, boisterous, and jingoistic. Maybe an exercise in irony? /shrug

 

[warpus]

Look at it this way; say you have a friend who had most of his familiy murdered by a local criminal cell. Would it be appropriate to build a statue in honor of the cell near your friend's house? Likewise, would it be appropriate to build anything associated with Islam near Ground Zero?

Your argument works, except that the mosque/community centre is not built in honour of the terrorists.. nor does it have any sort of relation to them, except that they happen to share the same religion.

Now, if they were building the "Osama bin Laden" Mosque, you might have a point.