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Post Feb 1st 2013 - bugs - Single Player

Discussion in 'Bugs and Crashes' started by Dancing Hoskuld, Jan 28, 2013.

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  1. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Minidump shows this is the same crash as reported a little earlier, to which I think I have a fix. I will run an end-turn on your save as part of my testing before I push to SVN though.
     
  2. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    @Koshling,
    Maybe a bit of over kill, but...I moved some units around and then saved again before hitting EoT button. Still CTd'd so here is 2nd MiniDump If you need it.

    JosEPh
     
  3. zeinul

    zeinul Warlord

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    @Koshling BTW you haven't pushed your SVN and I cannot check if it fixed my CTD problem.
     
  4. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    No, but I just finished pinning down the other problem that was holding me up, and am in the process of verifying the CTDs reported by Joseph and Pastador are also resolved, after which I will be pushing the fix (in about an hour I expect)
     
  5. zeinul

    zeinul Warlord

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    cool, I thought you forgot about me )
     
  6. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    As reported in SVN thread latest SVN 5123 fixed my CTD. :D

    JosEPh
     
  7. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Current XML (well maybe a day or so old) has University with a cost of 150 gold per turn maintenance. That's kinda over-the-top. The net stats on it (in my current game) are:

    -150 gold, +10 science, +3 culture

    Obviously it improves with further techs, but that just raises another point - +1 gold with economics - I mean WOW - rejoice - it goes from -150 to -149 !! Will anyone notice?

    I hope this is a typo! I suspect it should be -15 gold (base). Even then I think the +1 with economics should be +2 because the difference between -15 and -14 is rather marginal
     
  8. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    The base is -100 :gold:. So something is making it cost -50 :gold: more than it should. So I wonder if the +1 :gold: will actually give you +1 :gold: when it kicks in.
     
  9. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    100 seems like way too much to me - the research never gets close to catching up with the cost, even with later techs. Whether it is or not, having pluses that come in with techs of 1% of the amount it loses is pretty pointless, so you need to at least scale the later tech pluses up with the base cost a bit.
     
  10. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    :shake:

    Really???

    JosEPh
     
  11. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    That seems more than slightly excessive to me. Could you please change it to -15 :gold: before tomorrow night when (hopefully) the Release will be ready.
     
  12. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    So we're down to building 1 University for an Empire now?

    JosEPh
     
  13. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    PM me like 2 hours before you actually want to START the release upload, i need to do 1 more FPK, thx.
     
  14. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    That is rather hard to determine at this point. Assuming that Hydro fixes some extra zeroes in Building costs and Thunderbrd/Koshling figure out the Invisible Units issue it will be tomorrow evening, but given how every time I've said it will be soon some other bug comes up I can't say with great certainty.
     
  15. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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    I hear ya:crazyeye:, but still i am usually on every three hours or so, so its no biggy to me, i guess i will just do the FPK then around tomorrow afternoon then, hoping everything will work out by then:please:

    Also i need to check in with primemOver and see what on the forefront with him.
     
  16. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Emperor

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    The University is a pretty important building and I even build it with the 100 (or 150) cost. At the time it comes around I usually have enough money, though it hurts. There are many other buildings I don´t build though because they have negative effects (crime, pollution, reduction in hammers or science), sometimes even combined with negative gold.. But I would agree that 100 is too much. As a compromise I would suggest 30, at most 50.

    What I don´t build (examples):
    Mausoleum (-12 gold!)
    Stained Glass Workshop, Mosaic Workshop (3 Air Pollution each, 3 times what the street cleaner repairs!)
    Chemistry Lab (-12 gold + pollution)
    Deep Sea Lab (-120 gold (!)) - I build exactly one for the Mission to Challenger Deep wonder.
    Landfill (-18 gold + pollution)
    Liquor Store (5 crime)
    Microbiology Lab (-12 gold + pollution)
    and all of those special factories which I build exactly once in my empire because of the pollution, but only if they provide a ressource, e.g. I never build a Soap or Soda factory .
     
  17. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Nearly all education, police, fire, garbage, water, health, electricity, etc. have had their cost increased. In my game I have not seen a problem. I however around 80% science rate for most of the game and have university in nearly ALL my cities. There are so many buildings that give :gold: that is quite easy to support these utility buildings.

    So no I am not changing it. I have found it much more balanced.
     
  18. ls612

    ls612 Deity Moderator

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    I am not noticing that in my current game. :gold: rates are down to 30% or so and I see no end in sight. When I did a recalc I went from +1000 or so :gold: to -5500 :gold:. That will really hurt everyone who upgrades from V28 to V29. I think you went a bit overboard here on this one.
     
  19. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    I went back the the original gold levels I had before Joe had me reduce them all. I really want to keep them at these levels so people will build some more gold related buildings. Especially the ones people pass over because of :yuck:, :mad: or even crime. Who knows someone might build a Gambling Den for once.

    That reminds me. I need to fix the Brothel to provide some $.
     
  20. God-Emperor

    God-Emperor Deity

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    Here's a question for you Hydro. If you use the control-A feature to destroy one of your Universities in your test game, can you bump up the research percentage and keep the amount of gold income you have about the same as it was before destroying it? If so, how much? 5%? So, after bumping it up, if you can, how many research points are you making? Is this more or less than with the university? It might take more than one being removed to be able to permanently move the research slider up, or it might not. But the question is, once you have removed enough universities to do so do you end up getting more research per turn without the universities than you do with them? If you do then building them is detrimental to your research rate, which is silly.

    Converting money to research at a 1 for 10, or even 1 for 5, when you get a 50% maintenance reduction for courthouses and such (and with other sources of maintenance reduction you might sometimes get it to better than 1 for 4), seems like a bad deal. This is because bumping up the slider to get more research essentially diverts commerce from gold to research at about a 1 gold for 1 research rate more or less, depending on the total percentage modifiers for gold and research in your cities (it is unlikely to be worse than 1 for 2). If you are not spending buckets of gold on universities, you should be able to essentially convert that gold to research much more effectively via bumping the slider up a notch or two if the net conversion rate is better. Unless, of course, you are already at 100% research.

    BTW, I typically build exactly 1 gambling den already in a city that has a holy shrine (or two) which provides money to make the percentage modifier useful. More than that seems like a bad idea most of the time. Once banks become available, I sometimes also build 1 or 2 of some of the other crime producing buildings which give significant cash, like the smuggler's shack, in a financial city. Other than that I almost never build any of them. I usually don't feel any particular need to have some somewhat invisible units (only "somewhat invisible", since dogs are very common), or the other minor benefits they give, even with the money they give.
     
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