Roe vs Wade overturned

Putting aside the fact that the rolling back of women's rights is not a curiosity in the slightest, it is curious to see how this has all played out from a foreign legalistic perspective.

This decision puts abortion in the same legal position it is in here in Australia - a matter for the states. There is no federal constitutional or statutory protection (and frankly, the concept of an implied federal constitutional protection for abortion is a little odd). So American women now having the exact same federal protections as Australian women (i.e. none) does not, on its face, appear to be a catastrophe.

But the real difference is the simple political fact that many American states are captured by religious extremists, in a way that is uncommon in most Western democracies. Australian women do not have to be overly concerned about their abortion rights being substantially curtailed (accepting that many haven't actually had those rights in the first place for very long) because there is no substantial religious extremism in state governance.

It's also a sign of how irretrievably broken American democracy is, where the idea that Congress would be capable of implementing wide-ranging federal statutory protections is laughable. It seems like the almost universal response to American judicial decisions on rights is to consider those judicial decisions as being determinative of the issue, when that is not at all how things would play out elsewhere. Due to the impotence of the other branches of federal government, Americans appear to expect that judicial decisions will reflect a view of what policy should be, rather than what the law currently is. It's almost unthinkable that the conservative justices would find in favour of a liberal policy position on a purely interpretive basis, or that the liberal justices would find in favour of a conservative policy position on a purely interpretive basis. This seems to be the logical result of the US governmental framework being fundamentally unfit for purpose.

That dynamic will no doubt play out in the coming days in West Virginia v EPA. The whole weird concept of Chevron deference just wouldn't be necessary if there was a functional legislature.
 
Putting aside the fact that the rolling back of women's rights is not a curiosity in the slightest, it is curious to see how this has all played out from a foreign legalistic perspective.

This decision puts abortion in the same legal position it is in here in Australia - a matter for the states. There is no federal constitutional or statutory protection (and frankly, the concept of an implied federal constitutional protection for abortion is a little odd). So American women now having the exact same federal protections as Australian women (i.e. none) does not, on its face, appear to be a catastrophe.

But the real difference is the simple political fact that many American states are captured by religious extremists, in a way that is uncommon in most Western democracies. Australian women do not have to be overly concerned about their abortion rights being substantially curtailed (accepting that many haven't actually had those rights in the first place for very long) because there is no substantial religious extremism in state governance.

It's also a sign of how irretrievably broken American democracy is, where the idea that Congress would be capable of implementing wide-ranging federal statutory protections is laughable. It seems like the almost universal response to American judicial decisions on rights is to consider those judicial decisions as being determinative of the issue, when that is not at all how things would play out elsewhere. Due to the impotence of the other branches of federal government, Americans appear to expect that judicial decisions will reflect a view of what policy should be, rather than what the law currently is. It's almost unthinkable that the conservative justices would find in favour of a liberal policy position on a purely interpretive basis, or that the liberal justices would find in favour of a conservative policy position on a purely interpretive basis. This seems to be the logical result of the US governmental framework being fundamentally unfit for purpose.

That dynamic will no doubt play out in the coming days in West Virginia v EPA. The whole weird concept of Chevron deference just wouldn't be necessary if there was a functional legislature.

yea that's why I've stated that my government has been broken my entire life. what little it has passed legislatively has not been because of the will of the people it has been because it made jsut enough of the right people wealthy.
 
Putting aside the fact that the rolling back of women's rights is not a curiosity in the slightest, it is curious to see how this has all played out from a foreign legalistic perspective.

This decision puts abortion in the same legal position it is in here in Australia - a matter for the states. There is no federal constitutional or statutory protection (and frankly, the concept of an implied federal constitutional protection for abortion is a little odd). So American women now having the exact same federal protections as Australian women (i.e. none) does not, on its face, appear to be a catastrophe.

But the real difference is the simple political fact that many American states are captured by religious extremists, in a way that is uncommon in most Western democracies. Australian women do not have to be overly concerned about their abortion rights being substantially curtailed (accepting that many haven't actually had those rights in the first place for very long) because there is no substantial religious extremism in state governance.

It's also a sign of how irretrievably broken American democracy is, where the idea that Congress would be capable of implementing wide-ranging federal statutory protections is laughable. It seems like the almost universal response to American judicial decisions on rights is to consider those judicial decisions as being determinative of the issue, when that is not at all how things would play out elsewhere. Due to the impotence of the other branches of federal government, Americans appear to expect that judicial decisions will reflect a view of what policy should be, rather than what the law currently is. It's almost unthinkable that the conservative justices would find in favour of a liberal policy position on a purely interpretive basis, or that the liberal justices would find in favour of a conservative policy position on a purely interpretive basis. This seems to be the logical result of the US governmental framework being fundamentally unfit for purpose.

That dynamic will no doubt play out in the coming days in West Virginia v EPA. The whole weird concept of Chevron deference just wouldn't be necessary if there was a functional legislature.

Think NZ only decriminalized it in 2020 but women have had access since 77 iirc.

Any rule/law here can be repealed or revoked with simple act of parliament up to and including Bill of Rights and Human rights acts.

Theoretically they can more or less do whatever if they have the numbers. In practice it's much the same as Aussie.
 
states rights is going to be a critical talking point for them in very near future, not to mention wrt abortion specifically. it's not a legally functional argument to argue for state's rights and then deny other states their rights.

Right, because conservatives have never held inconsistent views on states rights' before. It's not like slave states demanded the right to make slavery legal while also demanding that free states be forced to send them back their escaped slaves. It's not like the confederate secessions cried about the infringement of their states rights when the federal government did anything remotely against slavery, and then basically cribbed their consitution directly from ours but made it illegal for states in the confederacy to ever outlaw slavery.
 
states rights is literally only brought up to push policy. i've never seen a single case where it wasn't "oh well can't push it through on the federal level, let's push it through on state level then"
 
Has the pro-life side really pushed the "states' rights" angle over the years? I've always understood that their goal was a federal ban, and overturning Roe v Wade was just the thing they had to do first.
 
So... they demand that states have the right to legislate, but only if they agree with the decision?
 
Except when they aren't typically-Republican states.

You'd almost think there is quite a lot of public support for a law similar to France's. But that would scale back, say, Illinois access. It's a big campaign. It'd need to be a primary and sustained issue, like Healthcare or immigration.
 
Has the pro-life side really pushed the "states' rights" angle over the years? I've always understood that their goal was a federal ban, and overturning Roe v Wade was just the thing they had to do first.

pretty sure i read appeal to state rights a few places, specifically in the aftermath of this ("it's not anti-abortion, they're just rightfully returning it to state jurisdiction!")

and yea they want a federal ban. point is that it's never been about states' rights. they just want away with the policies they don't like
 
Plus, as I've mentioned before, you're going to also get the argument that the various forms of welfare and child support laws already provide support to mothers who need it to care for the children they are being forced to carry to term.
Because growing up in an emotionally and socially improvised situation is ok if you have a bare minimum of food and shelter. :shake:

Those celebrating this are sick in the head, they celebrate it in theory whereas in practice (more poor people are born) they will offer no celebration or help whatsoever.
 
Was very sad to hear about this. Women without funds to get an abortion elsewhere are going to suffer because of this for sure. Could this cause a backlash with actual consequences or is everything just getting progressively worse over the pond now?
 
Could this cause a backlash with actual consequences or is everything just getting progressively worse over the pond now?

Little of column A, little of column B
 
It helps if you recognize that abortion, if anything, got less restricted in the states where the population is the most upset, in general.

There is public support for a law like France's. Put it at 14 weeks, and you could probably get the representatives and the senators.
 
Little of column A, little of column B
As I always say, ¿por qué no los dos?

In any case I think that women and dark-skinned people should not be allowed a say in this. Studies show that they are the most affected sectors so in the interest of neutrality only old men with a lot of money and the means to bribe judges to avoid imprisonment on corruption charges should be given a say.
 
It helps if you recognize that abortion, if anything, got less restricted in the states where the population is the most upset, in general.

There is public support for a law like France's. Put it at 14 weeks, and you could probably get the representatives and the senators.
18 or 20. 14 still brings up lots of potential illegalities due to mitigating circumstances. Also, exceptions would have to be there for a plethora of reasons. Contrary to the right wing in the US, many of us really hate to see the prison system used to punish women for natural behavior. It has been made clear in the last two weeks this is not about babies, it is about controlling those filthy sex mongers.

Attorney General Ken Paxton says he will defend Texas sodomy law if Supreme Court revisits Lawrence vs. Texas (chron.com)

The bigot mass criminal above is openly calling for sodomy law enforcement. I fudging hate this country so much right now.
 
Was very sad to hear about this. Women without funds to get an abortion elsewhere are going to suffer because of this for sure. Could this cause a backlash with actual consequences or is everything just getting progressively worse over the pond now?

Hard to say. Know more in November.

As I always say, ¿por qué no los dos?

In any case I think that women and dark-skinned people should not be allowed a say in this. Studies show that they are the most affected sectors so in the interest of neutrality only old men with a lot of money and the means to bribe judges to avoid imprisonment on corruption charges should be given a say.

Only landowners as well should get a say. The plebs don't know what's good for them!!!!
 
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At least it might boost the illegal sale of contraception pills.
Pretty impressive that the US has splits to such a fundamental level. Maybe it'd be better off as two countries.
 
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