[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: The 7th Thread Itch; scratch it here!

[Birdjaguar]

Well in the first instance I'm more concerned about not being a puppet of US imperialism and its manifold arms, not with Putin or Lukashenko or even China in the first instance. That's all that matters for me.

Moderator Action: Then I suggest you start a new thread on that topic. This thread is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine and related news. It is not about US foreign policy, pre invasion events, or other troubled spots around the world.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

Unfortunately by taking Russia’s side in this conflict you are pretty much supporting racists. Which actually makes you one.

LOL so we can all rest ironically with greatest peace of mind, knowing that by putting our money into the hands of Bandeirite neo-nazis and people who have actively threatened and stoked ethnic tensions between ethnic Ukrainians and Russians within that country is not somehow making me a racist, neo-nazi fellow traveller. Yeah, very good logic there.

As for @Birdjaguar posts, I'm really trying to relay on what pertains to US intervention and foreign policy in an assymetrical, subtle, indirect fashion. We have plenty of examples of this, from Pinochet onwards, so it's relevant to this discussion.

As of often, the pro-Ukrainian side really parrots a lot of US propaganda. It's good enough to tell that apart.

 

[saamohod]

As of often, the pro-Ukrainian side really parrots a lot of US propaganda.

Such as?

 

[leif erikson]

As for @Birdjaguar posts, I'm really trying to relay on what pertains to US intervention and foreign policy in an assymetrical, subtle, indirect fashion. We have plenty of examples of this, from Pinochet onwards, so it's relevant to this discussion.

Moderator Action: This is supposed to be a news thread, not a discussion about whatever happened before Feb 2022. If you wish to discuss other issues, create a new thread to do so. If you wish to discuss what is relevant in this thread, please do so via conversation.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

Such as?

""Unfortunately by taking Russia’s side in this conflict you are pretty much supporting racists""

THIS. It is so clownish, I think it's a joke, satire, trolling, whatever.

The reality, the facts:

In 2015, the US lifted a ban on supporting neo-nazi groups.

GT investigates: Evidence suggests US may have supported neo-Nazi Azov Battalion - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

GT investigates: Evidence suggests US may have supported neo-Nazi Azov Battalion

Ironically, despite being widely regarded as a threat to world security and an enemy of human civilization, Azov Battalion was found to have ties not only with the Ukraine authorities but also with the US.

That's the reality outside of the little US media and propaganda bubble most people here have closed themselves in. I suggest they take a look outside. That's all. Cheers.

 

[Birdjaguar]

As for @Birdjaguar posts, I'm really trying to relay on what pertains to US intervention and foreign policy in an assymetrical, subtle, indirect fashion. We have plenty of examples of this, from Pinochet onwards, so it's relevant to this discussion.

Moderator Action: Staff has been involved in this topic since the fall of 2021 as the invasion was building. There have been 7 threads of 4-5000 posts each. This thread is being kept tight to the invasion news and not US policy other than its current sending of arms and help to Ukraine. None of the rest is relevant to this discussion. As I said, you are free to start a new thread on whatever other aspects you want to discuss. Straying into other areas here will not be allowed. Don't go there.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Russian missile turns Ukrainian market into fiery, blackened ruin strewn with bodies

The Russian missile that struck in eastern Ukraine turned an outdoor market into a fiery, blackened ruin where weeping civilians looked for loved ones among the mangled, burned bodies scattered across the ground.

apnews.com

KOSTIANTYNIVKA, Ukraine (AP) — The Russian missile that struck Wednesday in eastern Ukraine turned an outdoor market into a fiery, blackened ruin where weeping civilians looked for loved ones among the mangled, burned bodies scattered across the ground.

The blast in the town of Kostiantynivka killed 17 people and wounded at least 32 in one of Russia’s deadliest strikes in months, Ukrainian officials said.

“There was no military target here. This is a peaceful neighborhood in the city center,” Stefan Slovak, who lives in Kostiantynivka, said in a trembling voice.

Behind him were the remnants of the market, where charred bodies could be seen in the street, their clothes still burning, near cars engulfed in flames. Behind a market stall holding fresh parsley, rescuers found a women in civilian clothes with her head covered in blood.

 

[keli]

LOL so we can all rest ironically with greatest peace of mind, knowing that by putting our money into the hands of Bandeirite neo-nazis and people who have actively threatened and stoked ethnic tensions between ethnic Ukrainians and Russians within that country is not somehow making me a racist, neo-nazi fellow traveller. Yeah, very good logic there.

As for @Birdjaguar posts, I'm really trying to relay on what pertains to US intervention and foreign policy in an assymetrical, subtle, indirect fashion. We have plenty of examples of this, from Pinochet onwards, so it's relevant to this discussion.

As of often, the pro-Ukrainian side really parrots a lot of US propaganda. It's good enough to tell that apart.

You conveniently skipped what I wrote about why your stance on "US propaganda" makes no sense. Regardless, thanks for coming clean about your intentions. You are not a neutral party, you are an active pro-Russian poster, probably with Russian/pravoslav heritage, who keeps repeating Russian psyops. Or a Russian bot from St. Petersburg.
We've had worse. Cheers.

 

[FriendlyFire]

putting our money into the hands of Bandeirite neo-nazis and people who have actively threatened and stoked ethnic tensions between ethnic Ukrainians and Russians within that country

Dont forget to perform mental gymnestic to defend why Putin released all the AZOV commanders

 

[Gedemon]

I see you're from France.

There's usually a so-called moral high ground when opposing Russian actions in Ukraine.

Except I'm a realist, and a cold one. Seeing that you're from France, perhaps you'll get my point. The pro-Us imperialist camp, or generally just the pro-US or vaguely sympathetic camp, tries to condemn and attack Russia's actions in Ukraine while turning a blind eye to the predatory, destructive face of US imperialism in the last 4 decades or so. It as if Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, coups detat and so on did not matter, throwing napalm on innocent civilians in some Afghan or Vietnamese backwater doesn't matter, but hey only Bucha matters because "muh fweedom, muh democlazy", "muh make mine fweedom".

These people aren't that different from Russia fanboys, because they parrot official propaganda. There's no difference between condoning the record of unjust and immoral US global interventions in the last decades because of "fweedom", and drawing a "Z" and saying that Russia is out there to "denazify" Ukraine.

Those are extremely stupid arguments, that are repeated by pro-Russian sources ad nauseam since 2022.

US did bad things (and yes, they did), so Ukraine must pay for them ?

What kind of people really think like that ?

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

Dont forget to perform mental gymnestic to defend why Putin released all the AZOV commanders

Prisioner exchange, no big deal.

But the Ukrainians released the fireworks because these nazis came back home. Can't be happy enough with putting nazis back on the fighting yeah.

""You conveniently skipped what I wrote about why your stance on "US propaganda" makes no sense. Regardless, thanks for coming clean about your intentions.""

Lol this is so silly I'm not even bothering with replying this.

If you don't think there's an agenda by big media corps in the US who're in bed with the Military Industrial Complex about Ukraine, you're just being too naive or just deliberately ignoring for the sake of an agenda.

The question is: you have not proved that I have an agenda. But you all have an agenda.

I could as well have posted 200 quotes from the Volkischer Beobachter 1930-1945 to absolve Hermann Goering and Albert Speer from the Nuremberg Tribunals. It's the same thing.

You're all circle jerking from the US propaganda bubble. It is useless, and counterproductive, because you're unwilling to go beyond your own little circle jerk to learn about facts outside that little bubble.

So what that Russia commits immoral acts.

Where's the supposed moral high ground that Zelensky and the US have when they're backing neo-nazi stooges that are far worse than the entire history of Russian imperialism since the Middle Ages?

The US is siding with Zelensky in protecting, arming, supplying Bandeirite neo-nazis - of all sorts. That's up to you to defend, and really, that's far more immoral than anything Putin has done.

Until then, you cannot possibly prove that Russia is the big evil guy in this story when your side is taking the pro-Hitler, pro-Bandera stage. There's nothing that excuses that.

I'm not going to side or argue in favor of people who claim that against a country like Russia, or China, or whatever, putting nazis and funding banana dictators or stooges whatever is the option. You simply can't hide away from this.

 

[saamohod]

So what that Russia commits immoral acts.

Indeed. Especially if you are Russian. Makes you proud. Check other Russian posters here.

Ivan, chill.
We don't have any kind of nazi problem here in Ukraine. No matter how much you gonna regurgitate this piece of Kremlin narrative.
We do have Russian problem here. A severe, existential problem.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

Indeed. Especially if you are a Russian. Makes you proud.

No, I've never been Russian.

So what that Russia commits immoral acts.

Your side is the one funding the neo-nazi upsurge in Ukraine.

That means you're much more of a bad guy than your rival is, even with the nuances of foreign politics in view.

The supposed triumph of US propaganda is trying to pass as impartial "common sense", when it's not. Actually most people outside of these little bubbles still agree with me, it's just US propaganda and nothing else.

 

[Gorbles]

Until then, you cannot possibly prove that Russia is the big evil guy in this story

Russia illegally invaded Ukraine. This is an immutable fact.

There is room for nuance on other talking points, but you don't seem to be open to any of it. Not when you're committed to make Ukraine the villain during the invasion of their own country.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That means you're much more of a bad guy than your rival is

What saamohod has done is worse than invading a nation, worse than killing 10,000 civilians, worse than abducting thousands of children, worse than making millions flee their country.

Because some propaganda nonsense about neo-nazis.

You're full of bollocks MPCC.

 

[saamohod]

Your side is the one funding the neo-nazi upsurge in Ukraine.

Not wanting to become Russian by force doesn't make me or the vast-vast majority of my countrymates nazi. You need to check vocabulary for definitions, and just shut the hell up before you gonna lecture us how to defend our land and our lives.

 

[Akka]

Those are extremely stupid arguments, that are repeated by pro-Russian sources ad nauseam since 2022.

2014 in fact.

 

[red_elk]

Dont forget to perform mental gymnestic to defend why Putin released all the AZOV commanders

That one is interesting. Putin has become fan of Azov in your kingdom of crooked mirrors?

 

[Akka]

Dont forget to perform mental gymnestic to defend why Putin released all the AZOV commanders

Honestly, that's one of the tamest contradiction.
Much funnier and more glaring one is the fact that Russia is the one which has massively more links to the far-right than Ukraine. Either due to how Wagner was actually much more nazi than anything like Azov (expect another mental gymnastic about how Wagner is not representative of Russian government now that it rebelled, conveniently glossing over the years it was just an unofficial arm of Russia military, that Putin himself actually admitted when he said that it was financed by Russia state coffer), due to the massive amount of war crimes that are typical of what nazis did, or the fact that Russia was the one funding nearly all far-right parties in Europe.

The nazi card is the trademark of Kremlin mouthpiece, and has been so thoroughly ridiculed and proved false that it's also the reliable proof that someone is just pretending not to be a Russian bot, as nobody else would take it seriously.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

"Far-right" doesn't mean neo-nazi.

The Kremlin is not innocent.

So what, you have not so far proved that I've had a pro-Russian agenda.

But I've enjoyed playing the devil's advocate. That was my only true intent since the beginning.

[snip] Moderator Action: Off topic comments deleted by Birdjaguar.

Ukraine is just another instance of that. But nuff said, case in point, and this thread will keep on forever but I just refuse to see Zelensky and the US as the "angels" and the "good guys" of this story.

And really, calling me "racist" for evicing occasional pro-Kremlin sympathies is ridiculous, when it's your party that is helping the nazis win again in Ukraine, just like Germany in 1933. I rest my case.