Should cavalry upgrade to Tanks?

[ThinkerRCB]

In civ 3 there's basically 3 types of land combat units:

Defensive: spearmen, musketmen, rifleman, infantry, mechanized infantry
Offensive: warrior, swordsman, bowman, longbowman, medieval infantry, guerilla, TOW infantry

Fast Offensive: Horseman, Knight, Cavalry, Tank, Modern Tank

Everything has a complete upgrade path except Cavalry --> Tank.

Why or why shouldn't cavalry be upgradeable to tank?

Too big a jump? But then what about spearmen--> musketmen, or bowman --> guerilla?

Too expensive? But Tank --> Modern Tank requires the new tanks to be completely rebuilt from scratch.

I just don't see the reason why they're not upgradeable considering other civ3 upgrade paths.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I'm quite sure it would be unbalancing. Ouch ...

 

[ThinkerRCB]

Wasn't that the case anyway in real history when the russian cavalry went up against german tanks during WW2?

"On the 17th November the Russians charged fixed German positions at Yakroma with 2 Regiments of Cavalry. The 2,000 cavalrymen charged despite heavy artillery and machinegun fire. Only 30 lived to reach the German positions and not even one German was wounded."

Real life wasn't balanced. If cavalry -> tank is too much, then what about cavalry -> infantry? or cavalry -> mechanized infantry.

 

[Colonel Kraken]

I have Cavalry upgrade to "Armored Scout" then to "Armored Cavalry". That goes from a WWI type armored car to a modern day scout vehicle. I have them able to travel faster than armor but less powerful. That way you don't have to worry about the instant tank army available to the savey human player, but you don't have to have a bunch of useless horse cavalry around.

--CK

 

[Ozymandias]

I have Cavalry upgrade to "Armored Scout" then to "Armored Cavalry". That goes from a WWI type armored car to a modern day scout vehicle. I have them able to travel faster than armor but less powerful. That way you don't have to worry about the instant tank army available to the savey human player, but you don't have to have a bunch of useless horse cavalry around.

--CK

I pretty much follow CK's approach with the exception that I add a final update to Air Cavalry (helicopters configured as ground units). Remember "Death From Above" and the air cav & All That in "Apocalypse Now".

-Oz

 

[Supa]

In my personnal mod, Cavalry upgrades to Mobile Infantry, then Mech Infantry, as quick but cheap offensive units.

The Infantry upgrades to Modern Infantry and some Future Infantry units (Still defensive units)

Tanks are still the new and strong offensives units

 

[Jaybe]

Since I am currently playing Rhye's of Civilization which includes a light-cavalry unit (the Hussar), I make my heavy-cavalry unit (Cavalry) upgrade to tanks.

Notes: my Cavalry cost=90 shields, tanks cost=120; heavy-cavalry upgrades to tanks concept adopted from Rise of Nations.

 

[kulade]

I think after tanks in the game, cavalry are obsolete. It may not be historically accuate, but i upgrade cavalry to tanks because they serve the same purpose

 

[Paasky]

Wasn't that the case anyway in real history when the russian cavalry went up against german tanks during WW2?

"On the 17th November the Russians charged fixed German positions at Yakroma with 2 Regiments of Cavalry. The 2,000 cavalrymen charged despite heavy artillery and machinegun fire. Only 30 lived to reach the German positions and not even one German was wounded."

I thought that was Poland, as they had a large Cavalry force. The best and largest in Europe. They were no match for Panzer II's though...

 

[rcoutme]

If warriors can upgrade to tow infantry and spearmen to mech. infantry, I see no reason that chariots should not upgrade to tanks.

 

[Gengis Khan]

No way. Having an instant Tank army is waaaay too powerful.

Plus every addition unit you add to the game in the upgrade path, continues to make Leo's(already a very strong wonder) even more powerful.

 

[aaglo]

I definitely think NO.

 

[Adler17]

Yep, but also the Russians made these kamikaze attacks. But after a terrible defeat, most probable the mantioned they never made big cavalry charges again. In ww2 cavalry was even more useless than in ww1. Although the cavalry was used until the last days of the war. And in Switzerland the cavalry units were dissolved finally in the 1970s. However there are also used horses with riders in military use even in modern armies today, but not in the classical role.
Many states used their cavalry untis to equip them with tanks so it is not unhistorical to make that. I support that idea.

Adler

 

[Jaca]

If warriors can upgrade to tow infantry and spearmen to mech. infantry, I see no reason that chariots should not upgrade to tanks.

I feel this is indeed a point. Anyway, my thoughts are that tanks should be more (shield)expensive, if you compare their stats with other units. 160-180S or so, but with just slightly a better defence then. Side effect: upgrading would cost a lot more, so maybe this would not unlabalance it too much. Same for the Modern Age wheeled units.

Jaca

 

[ThinkerRCB]

I feel this is indeed a point. Anyway, my thoughts are that tanks should be more (shield)expensive, if you compare their stats with other units. 160-180S or so, but with just slightly a better defence then. Side effect: upgrading would cost a lot more, so maybe this would not unlabalance it too much. Same for the Modern Age wheeled units.

Jaca

I agree. There is only a 20 shield difference between a cavalry unit and a tank. And only 10 shield difference between a Cossack and a tank. Tanks should definately cost 160+ especially since they can blitz!

 

[Colonel Kraken]

I pretty much follow CK's approach with the exception that I add a final update to Air Cavalry (helicopters configured as ground units). Remember "Death From Above" and the air cav & All That in "Apocalypse Now".

-Oz

Ooh, excellent. I'll have to give this a try!

 

[zulu9812]

Guys, I don't think that cavalry should upgrade to tanks. When the first tanks came out, cavalry were still frequently used on the battlefield. Here is my cavary progression:


Eras-
Ancient
Early Medieval
Late Medieval
Renaissance
Colonial
19c/WWI
WWII
Modern
Post-Modern

Light Cavalry
Horseman
Horse Archer
Pistolier
Carabineer
Dragoon
Armoured Car
Halftrack
Light Fighting Vehicle

Heavy Cavalry
Cataphract
Knight
Cavalier
Cuirassier
Hussar
Lancer
n/a
n/a

Armour
n/a
n/a
n/a
n/a
n/a
Tank
Armour
Modern Battle Tank
Modern Armour

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

I put nonnob's kradschützen (Motorcyclist Scouts) in as an upgrage to Cav same stats + one more movement point (requires oil tho). After that the cav units upgrade to either light or standard tanks (I have a large array of WWII tanks in my mod including WWI tanks, Light tanks, Standard tanks, Medium tanks, Heavy and Super-Heavy Tanks). This means that there will be an overlap of WWI tanks fighting cavalry).

All tanks will later upgrade to Post WWII tank units, including cavalry (in vanilla civ i suggest to make the Cavalry unit upgrade to modern armor instead of the WWII tank to feature a similar overlap period)

 

[MarineCorps]

I put in an early tank unit with stats 12.7.2 as an upgrade to calvary. Then to tanks.

 

[TopGun]

I agree with Zulu (for a change )...
No, don't upgrade cavalry to tanks. In the beginning of tank warfare, cavalry was still widely used, although they were already becoming obsolete. However, it was not tanks that rendered them obsolete, but those damn trenches and the heavy artillery...