Should the US Invade Greenland (Denmark) & Panama

I was using the word "bribe" because selling off one's country feels ... immoral?

However, it would be neither illegal nor especially difficult to publicly propose a deal where every Greenlander gets paid a lump some of money, if their government agrees to XYZ.
so, ok.

they already get substantial subsidies. these grants are trustworthy, because they're within reason.

let's overshoot the bribe price for a short hypothetical.

say greenland's news announced that elon was willing to pay every greenlander 1 billion dollars. elon supports this in public statements. trump endorses this. you can sign up on elon's website. if you listen to the politically enfranchised who do deep digs into statements like this, they also say it's legit.

now, would you take that deal? like, sure, you might take it. but would you take it? try to put yourself into that situation. something is absurdly fishy about it. this seems like some real nigerian prince stuff, doesn't it?

the danish subsidies are trusted to continue because they're within a reasonable amount and have already been distributed for a living memory. whatever would be handed over should both beat that offer and to a degree that it overcomes greenland's wish for independence (because there's no f* way the us will let them be independent like denmark is fine with) and stay within an amount that sounds reasonable. for a lot of this, it comes down to basically changing a person's framing of mind (a lifelong want for independence is a cultural pillar of the majority of greenlanders right now, like, it's a core part of what it means to be greenlandic to a lot of them), which, again, simply requires work and time. it's also completely individual. you can't just f* put a check on a parliament table and expect something to happen here, no matter how large; if it gets too big, the reasonable individual voter will think it's too big, because it is.

you noted in another post that it can be done by doing grassroots work and foreign-influence an election in a country, giving their parliament a mandate to arrange the sale. now, this is electoral influence to the degree that they'll give up on a completely core principle, instead of like doing a nudge (which is how most electoral influence works). if you know how to do that, feel free to explain it to me, because i would love that power.

like jesus this is all so absurdly 4X-brained. i'm sorry about the tone, but can we talk about the greenlanders as real people? because the real world doesn't work like that. you can't just send reality's equivalent of Espionage Points or Diplo Points into the province interface and have them vote for your guy. you don't just buy a city. you make arrangements with individuals through careful deals, one at a time. if you fix the talking heads, then you have the city.

so you'd have to go through the administrative bottlenecks, and let's just presume here that the us could just bribe the greenland parliament; that is more of a technical possibility. ugly, but a more reasonable hypothetical. and that current government just doing the deed on their own? they told the world. they're not interested. the us can up and well invest in the area like any other power currently has the rights to.

a blanket cash grant on votes/annexation is absurd in the case of greenland. their economic situation does not reflect a dire need for it, and they have strived to not get annexed by countries since, well, they were colonized.
 
say greenland's news announced that elon was willing to pay every greenlander 1 billion dollars. elon supports this in public statements. trump endorses this. you can sign up on elon's website. if you listen to the politically enfranchised who do deep digs into statements like this, they also say it's legit.

now, would you take that deal? like, sure, you might take it. but would you take it? try to put yourself into that situation. something is absurdly fishy about it. this seems like some real nigerian prince stuff, doesn't it?
It does, mostly because Elon's net worth is just about 1/150 of what it would take to pay each Greenlander 1billion.

1 million per person, however, would be well within his means. That's just 60 bn, or less than 10% of US annual defense budget.
EDIT:
like jesus this is all so absurdly 4X-brained. i'm sorry about the tone, but can we talk about the greenlanders as real people?
I mean no disrespect to Greenlanders.
However, remember that in most countries, half of the real people don't even bother turning up to vote.
In US over half of real voters just voted for Donald Trump entiterly on their own accord.
I can appreciate Greenland is not some impoverished place desperate for cash, but are you really saying something like 1M would not make enough people to think?

The reason such blanket cash purchases don't happen is that usually paying off 60k people would get you a town, not a continent. Not worth it. Greenland is quite unique in this regard.
 
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Outright buying out the people - have them sign away the land - actually may be the best deal available to Greenland.
US did roughly double its size by buying land from Napoleon, but had France not been willing to sell, the US was threatening war.
 
It does, mostly because Elon's net worth is just about 1/150 of what it would take to pay each Greenlander 1billion.

1 million per person, however, would be well within his means. That's just 60 bn, or less than 10% of US annual defense budget.
This doesn't mean that he'd actually pay it though. "has the money" is a separate thing from "will pay the money if Greenlanders follow through". What is his track record on fiscal responsibility r.e. commitments made?
 
The strongest military and industrial power in Europe, the largest and most populous state, is Russia
:lol: Where have you been for the past few years? Without NK, China, and Iran Russia would be in a bigger mess that it is now.
 
Except medical health care, I don't see any other reason for Greenlanders stay under Danish rule.
Cheaper energy, higher living Standart, economy grow.
MGGA
 
The disdain for the people of Greenland here is surprising...

Yeah... then again, not really.

Outright buying out the people - have them sign away the land - actually may be the best deal available to Greenland.

Greenland doesn't have to give up its own territory, if they don't want to.

They can broker deals with American companies to extract resources in their territory for a slice of the pie, just as it has been practiced around the World since Capitalism began.
 
They can broker deals with American companies to extract resources in their territory for a slice of the pie, just as it has been practiced around the World since Capitalism began.
Hire one bunch of Americans to keep another bunch of Americans out... Sure, should work, if nothing else will.

Americans are arguable more easily swayed by straight up remuneration than fx Greenlanders. Just buy as many as needed.
 
It does, mostly because Elon's net worth is just about 1/150 of what it would take to pay each Greenlander 1billion.

1 million per person, however, would be well within his means. That's just 60 bn, or less than 10% of US annual defense budget.
EDIT:

I mean no disrespect to Greenlanders.
However, remember that in most countries, half of the real people don't even bother turning up to vote.
In US over half of real voters just voted for Donald Trump entiterly on their own accord.
I can appreciate Greenland is not some impoverished place desperate for cash, but are you really saying something like 1M would not make enough people to think?

The reason such blanket cash purchases don't happen is that usually paying off 60k people would get you a town, not a continent. Not worth it. Greenland is quite unique in this regard.
the point with the absurd amount is not that elon could afford it or not, but rather that it doesn't mesh with reality and is a strange alien offer to most people.

for context as to the economic situation of greenland.

atm greenland gets about 6 billion dkr each year from denmark and the eu. that's about 830 million dollars each year, and it doesn't go straight to the pockets of citizens, but that's the level of subsidies they have to consider just outright abandoning for something they don't care about and don't want to do. a deal like this is of course substantial, but it's real and safe and proven and, for one, does not mean becoming part of the us with all the ills that would entail (while greenlanders probably have a different understanding of the us than danes, i don't think they'd appreciate abandoning the nordic model for the ... situation in america).

would it make them think about it? of course, but i have high doubts they'd take it in their current situation. they aren't economically pressured to a degree that such an offer is tempting moreso than a luxury (making it bad when we're talking independence dreams), and it could maybe have been translated directly into a capital boon for investment, but as i've noted before, their issues with investment is not that they lack money per se, it's that there's a huge ice sheet between them and their potential investment opportunities. until then, they have fishing, but that's already sophisticated and industrialized and has a real capacity on how much can really be done. so it's like... a lot of money, and then what? send their kids to school? they have free access to the danish education system (their issues getting through that is mostly social). it's not that they have everything they need, they have issues, but... i think i'm being clear, but i'm unsure though. to wealthier greenlanders, the money isn't even that relevant.

the point is that having an astronomical offer land in your inbox and publicized by elon in some tv commercial reeks of snakes oil, any reasonable person would think the whole thing is fishy and would worry about the future prospects of taking such a deal. would it have you consider it? i mean yea, sure. but it's not an automatic take that can sway 51+% of a population. so after giving an astronomical offer like that, you'll have to, independently, have open conversations with the people in question, you know, how they do it in business.

let's say i was a blacksmith (i actually know some in denmark so i'm using it) and i like go out to get my morning coffee and check my email or even mailbox, and SURPRISE i got an offer of A MILLION DOLLARS out of nowhere for my hammer, that is, not my vote, not my country's independence, not anything important, just a random hammer, i'd throw it in the trash, because it'd be nonsense. even with the discourse today, i would need, like, at least one talk with a representative from somewhere. and it'd take time for me to think it over.

this whole thing would feel to me like my drug-recovering neighbour hammers my front door at 4 am because they want to pay me fifty dollars for a cigarette. i'd shut the door.
 
Purely informed by the fact that Donald Trump is a convicted fraud and felon, guilty in falsifying property values to get tax deductions, or bank loans for himself on inflated terms - no one with business sense, should ever be swayed by his false arguments, promises and guarantees. He has backstabbed pretty much every entity he has done business with since the 1980s.
 
Greenland is similar to many low population resource rich countries (or Indian Reservations). They can contract with companies that have lots of capital to mine the resources and collect the royalties. Alaska has been doing that for decades with its oil. The Southern Utes do so with their oil and gas. The Persian Gulf nations did so for decades until they were rich enough to buy out the outsiders. The Greenland government would collect the royalties and use the funds to build infrastructure and support programs and also send cash to each family or person. Pretty simple. In NM tribes with no resources just use casinos to do the same since they are the only entities that can have casinos.
 
Samoa is odd since they explicitly chose to not follow the constitution meaning Samoans not citizens but nationals. This is intentional due to their property laws they don't want non-natives owning land. I think those in Greenland are at least full Danes.
 
@EvaDK Is this factual?

As a Digital Nomad, I often find myself intrigued by unique places around the world. One such place that has recently caught my attention is Greenland. Known for its stunning landscapes and rich indigenous culture, Greenland is a unique territory that offers a distinct way of life. One aspect that particularly stood out to me is the absence of private property ownership in Greenland. Yes, you read that right – there’s no private property ownership in Greenland!

Nearly 90% of Greenland’s population is of Inuit origin, and the territory has embraced its indigenous roots by shaping policies from an indigenous perspective. Instead of allowing individuals to buy land, Greenland has adopted a different approach. While anyone can buy real estate in Greenland, it is important to note that you cannot buy the land on which the property is located. Instead, you have the right to use the land, and if you purchase property, you own the house but not the land itself. The land remains owned by the government or the local community, emphasizing a collective decision-making process rather than individual ownership.

This unique approach reflects Greenland’s commitment to preserving its cultural heritage and maintaining a strong sense of community. By not allowing private property ownership, Greenland ensures that decisions are made in the best interest of the entire territory, rather than individual preferences. Most of the major industries in Greenland are state-owned, further highlighting the importance of communal decision-making and prioritizing the collective over individual interests.

So, if you’re considering moving to Greenland or buying property there, it’s important to understand the nuances of land ownership. While you can purchase real estate, the land itself will always belong to the government or the local community. This approach not only preserves Greenland’s cultural identity but also ensures that decisions are made collectively, taking into account the needs of the entire territory.


 
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Is the relationship between Greenland and Denmark similar to the US and Samoa?

I don't know enough about the US and American Samoa relationship and history to answer that.

Samoa is odd since they explicitly chose to not follow the constitution meaning Samoans not citizens but nationals. This is intentional due to their property laws they don't want non-natives owning land. I think those in Greenland are at least full Danes.

Yes, Greenlanders are also Danish citizens with all the rights and opportunities that follow. Greenlanders with their Danish citizenship can live, work, study and travel in all EU nations.
 
Is the relationship between Greenland and Denmark similar to the US and Samoa?
Not quite. They get to vote, for one thing. The US is pretty unusual in disenfranchising territory residents.
 
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