The shortest God thread opening post and poll, with the longest threadtitle on CFC-OT

[Zack]

edit: What's a true atheist?

"a-" means "not"

In its simplest meaning, an "atheist" is simply "not theist".

 

[emzie]

What else would you consider yourself? It's simply the answer to the question "Do you believe in god(s)?" I see no further implications. I also don't think motivation makes a difference. Whether it's from having never heard of the concept, apathy or not seen any evidence yet.

edit: What's a true atheist?

Instead of awkwardly rewriting it, let me just quote Bertrand Russell:

I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely.

When I say "true atheist" I mean someone who knows god doesn't exist, rather than thinks it unlikely but unprovable.

Like all scientific questions, I can't prove any god hypothesis wrong but in failing to prove them right I am comfortable dismissing them as wrong.

 

[Borachio]

I think it all depends on what you think God is.

Spoiler :

For me God is undefinable. I can't really say any more than "God is that". Or I could say what God is not - and give a long long list.

God is maybe the ground of our being: the awareness from which, or into which, our thoughts arise. But this is certainly not true in any real sense. It's a clumsy attempt to indicate the sort of thing people like to go on about. The atman, the universal conciousness, ramble ramble mutter mutter.

 

[duckstab]

I don't understand this. The limitless possibilities for a deity (or deities) or supernatural force are beyond our imagination, understanding, and comprehension.

Yes, the notion that there is one God who has such a laughable inferiority complex that he condemns anyone who doesn't agree with him to eternal misery is hardly worth considering. The possibility of the Abrahamic God can be easily dismissed out of hand.

But for all we know, "God" is an entity which we cannot possibly understand, comprehend, or know of in humanity's current feeble state. "God" could be a hivemind of intelligences which created the universe and established its fundamental principles, then promptly sat right back down and ate potato chips for the rest of time. Or we could be a collection of miniscule insignificants created by a higher form of species, like a bunch of ants.

You've largely answered the question. If '"God"' is an entity which we cannot possibly understand, comprehend, or know of in humanity's current feeble state", then it's a complete waste of time to speculate on His/Her/Its/Their nature or existence. An unseen and unknowable deity can have absolutely no bearing on how I live my life from day to day.

How can you possibly dismiss any and all possibilities of a higher being(s)?

The same way I can dismiss claims of vampires, levitating yogis, ghosts, ancient aliens, and whatnot. As Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." I have yet to be made aware of any phenomenon for which such an extraordinary explanation is more plausible than a more natural and obvious one. We can speculate all we want about invisible beings, but the only reality they are proven to have is in the human mind.

 

[Borachio]

And isn't conciousness, or the human mind, the only thing that concerns us here, anyway? If something has no reality in the human mind, then as far as we're concerned, it has no reality at all.

This is just me chasing myself round and round in circles.

I'm not sure why you dismiss vampires (who seem archetypically sexual predators), levitating yogis (who knows what that's about - probably something), ghosts (aren't we all ghosts for each other?), ancient aliens (who? you mean like Yahweh?), and whatnot (I like a good whatnot - your whatnot was always the best ever).

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Carl Sagan FTW.

 

[Zack]

You've largely answered the question. If '"God"' is an entity which we cannot possibly understand, comprehend, or know of in humanity's current feeble state", then it's a complete waste of time to speculate on His/Her/Its/Their nature or existence. An unseen and unknowable deity can have absolutely no bearing on how I live my life from day to day.

The same way I can dismiss claims of vampires, levitating yogis, ghosts, ancient aliens, and whatnot. As Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." I have yet to be made aware of any phenomenon for which such an extraordinary explanation is more plausible than a more natural and obvious one. We can speculate all we want about invisible beings, but the only reality they are proven to have is in the human mind.

Eh, you seem to think basically the same way as I do. I don't really care to waste time speculating about the possibility of a deity (or plural), as it's pointless and irrelevant to my everyday life. BUT, I don't think that necessarily means that there is no deity (or plural), just that it doesn't really matter.

 

[_random_]

I think it all depends on what you think God is.

Spoiler :

For me God is undefinable. I can't really say any more than "God is that". Or I could say what God is not - and give a long long list.

God is maybe the ground of our being: the awareness from which, or into which, our thoughts arise. But this is certainly not true in any real sense. It's a clumsy attempt to indicate the sort of thing people like to go on about. The atman, the universal conciousness, ramble ramble mutter mutter.

Are you familiar with Apophatic Theology?

 

[Arwon]

Poll could have been shorter by making the question "God?"

 

[Global Skeptic]

What is this word proof that some of you use? To me as a global skeptic it is as useful as the word God.

 

[TomYo689]

There are really dumb minimum character limits for posting on this forum I doubt a 3 letter title would go through.

 

[Kennigit]

What is this word proof that some of you use? To me as a global skeptic it is as useful as the word God.

good thing no one used that word in the thread until you (search it yourself ). although prove and proven did get used some

 

[Global Skeptic]

good thing no one used that word in the thread until you (search it yourself ). although prove and proven did get used some

What are these words prove and proven that some of you use? To me as a global skeptic these are as useful as the word God.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Instead of awkwardly rewriting it, let me just quote Bertrand Russell:

Hmmm

When I say "true atheist" I mean someone who knows god doesn't exist, rather than thinks it unlikely but unprovable.

Odd way of using the word "true".

Like all scientific questions, I can't prove any god hypothesis wrong but in failing to prove them right I am comfortable dismissing them as wrong.

Makes sense.

Poll could have been shorter by making the question "God?"

What if I got "Yes?" as an answer.

 

[Leoreth]

What are these words prove and proven that some of you use? To me as a global skeptic these are as useful as the word God.

Which I guess is roughly as useful as global skepticism is to me.

 

[Borachio]

Are you familiar with Apophatic Theology?

Well, yes and no.

Yes, in the sense that defining God by what he/she/it/they is not is pretty much standard stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_neti

No, in the sense that theology is pretty much a waste of time, it seems. But it could be a matter of taste, of course.

"We do not know what God is. God Himself does not know what He is because He is not anything. Literally God is not, because He transcends being."

It's possible that the Sufis say something very similar.

 

[warpus]

When I say "true atheist" I mean someone who knows god doesn't exist, rather than thinks it unlikely but unprovable.

That just defines a subset of all atheists though, those who "for sure know" that God doesn't exist, or at least believe so.

I do not fall in that group, yet I have to be considered an atheist, because my answer to this question: "Do you believe that God exists?"

Is "No"

 

[hobbsyoyo]

One of the many reasons why I stopped going to my local atheist club meetings is because they spent so much time arguing over the definitions of atheism/agnosticism/whatever and trying to 'accurately' classify themselves/each other/everyone else. I never understood why people of this bent spent so much time or energy on it.

Which doesn't apply to anyone here because it's a discussion forum after all and it's fun to talk about it here.

I'm just saying that real life 'atheist clubs' need to get over spending so much time on frivolous stuff like this. IMO, an atheist club should be run pretty much like a church with smaller meetings before or after the 'sermon' for people who identify with different subsets to get together. These groups would be like bible study only instead of 'married couples' bible study or 'old people' bible study, it would be 'vegan' science study and 'agnostic' science study. They'd be fun discussion groups that talk about issues that pertain to the group.

The main 'sermon' would be about moral and ethical issues, hot topics in science and how that pertains to our lives and so on.

The whole point would be to offer a place for people to get together as a community and spend time together and to do charitable works. (offering plates would go around to collect money for charity or to run a food pantry or whatever). It would be church without God. I want this soooooo bad. I hate atheist clubs, their full of narcissits and hairsplitters and usually don't accomplish anything or even have interesting conversations. (at least the ones I've been too) I long for the community that church offers.

 

[Borachio]

An atheist club? You're having me on surely.

Seriously? There really are such things?

Are there clubs for non-anglers, then: people who don't like to go fishing? That would make equally as much sense to me.

Still, good luck to them, I say. I've often thought atheists really don't have anywhere to go on Sundays (or whateverdays).

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yeah there are atheists clubs, particularly on college campuses. In my experience they only exist to organize road trips to atheist events/big speeches, argue over definitions of atheism and agnosticism, etc and to just plain argue and complain about the religious. They kind of suck.

I don't know about the UK, but in the US many atheists feel the need to have such associations and clubs because we feel persecuted and left out of mainstream political discourse. You don't know how liberating it can be to come to a website like CFC and openly declare I'm an atheist and not be hounded for it or have my political or social views dismissed for that single fact.