What is the difference between depression and sadness?

classical_hero

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I've made no secret (or 'came out' during the Robin Williams thread) that I suffer from depression. The one thing to keep in mind is that depression is not the same thing as sadness. That said, when I'm low, I have a hard time attending extremely juvenile comedy TV shows.

This is an interesting quote that is worth exploring because there is a difference between sadness and depression. Just how close are they to each other? I know there have definitely been times of sadness when I have felt low, but I am not sure if was slight depression, because I find that I get over the feeling often then next day. I mean certain situations can be depressing but I wouldn't say that is the same as being depressed.

Moderator Action: Note to all users: nobody in this thread is qualified to give medical advice, nor do the forum rules allow medical advice. Do not make any decisions of a medical nature (such as whether to stop, start, or change treatments) based on what you read in this thread. Medical decisions should be made only with the aid of a real-life medical professional. This is strictly a discussion thread.
 
Wasn't there already a thread about this? Where did it go?
 
Severity, duration, and impairment. To be diagnosed with major depressive disorder you have to meet at least 5 symptoms, they must be present most of the day almost every day for at least 2 weeks, and they must cause clinically significant distress or impairment.
 
Severity, duration, and impairment. To be diagnosed with major depressive disorder you have to meet at least 5 symptoms, they must be present most of the day almost every day for at least 2 weeks, and they must cause clinically significant distress or impairment.

Pretty much this. Just question: Isn't duration the most important factor from these? i.e., even if your emotional status doesn't hinder your day to day existence, diagnosis is appropriate if it last over (some) period of time?
 
Pretty much this. Just question: Isn't duration the most important factor from these? i.e., even if your emotional status doesn't hinder your day to day existence, diagnosis is appropriate if it last over (some) period of time?

For MDD all three are required, but if someone doesn't meet duration or severity then they can be diagnosed with "depressive disorder not otherwise specified", which is basically a catch-all. I don't believe distress/impairment get any wiggle room, so I guess you could say that's the most important thing.
 
Depression isn't caused by bad feelings or unfortunate disposition toward something, so it isn't something someone can "just cheer up" from. It's like rain, it simply is or isn't, and there's nothing any happy feels can do about that.

In fact, harassing a depressed person for being depressed usually makes their depression worse.
 
Moderator Action: There are two really critical ground rules for this thread that must be addressed now: there is to be no discussion of suicide and no medical advice in this thread.

Edit to mod warning: It is allowed to mention people (such as Robin Williams) who have died by suicide, you may mention suicidal thoughts as a symptom provided you don't go into any further detail, you may tell people that they should consider seeing a doctor and/or therapist, and you may discuss what medical interventions you have undergone and what other people you know have experienced. You may not talk about methods of suicide, argue about suicide philosophically, give other users advice on what medications to take, or anything of that nature.
 
Oh that's why the last thread got removed.

I <3 my SSRIs. Makes me have braingasms. I also recently added menthol cough sweets and now full facegasms.

I still get suicidal thoughts, but the frequency of them dropped by about 90%, and I also completely stopped getting migraines and heart palpitations due to anxiety. Oh and also no more hot flushes, I used to get loads of those and strong heart palpitations and kept thinking I was going to die from panic attacks.

But the SSRI I take can cause sudden death from altering heartbeats, though it shouldn't do after the maximum prescribable dosage was halved some time ago due to that.

But that just makes me want double the dose now because it would be even more effective then.
 
This thread makes me think one has to be very careful while engaging in impersonal interactions with people online. Especially when discussing life or death. In the heat of the debate one can step on all the wrong calluses.

Sadness is a negative emotion. Another emotion can make it to go away. Depression is a state of mind. You know it is there even if you experience no emotions at that moment.
 
But that just makes me want double the dose now because it would be even more effective then.
I'm no biologist but drugs sort of work in a chocolate fountain style, filling up each tray before spilling over into the one below. Sometimes doubling a dose doesn't get any more out of that tray's effect and spills into one you don't want.

Case in point, past the lethal dose, Benedryl acts as an SSRI.

[size]Ten bucks says Traitorfish knows where I formulated this post from.[/size]
 
I'm no biologist but drugs sort of work in a chocolate fountain style, filling up each tray before spilling over into the one below. Sometimes doubling a dose doesn't get any more out of that tray's effect and spills into one you don't want.

Case in point, past the lethal dose, Benedryl acts as an SSRI.

[size]Ten bucks says Traitorfish knows where I formulated this post from.[/size]
Do you mean chemist?
 
I'm no biologist but drugs sort of work in a chocolate fountain style, filling up each tray before spilling over into the one below. Sometimes doubling a dose doesn't get any more out of that tray's effect and spills into one you don't want.

Case in point, past the lethal dose, Benedryl acts as an SSRI.

[size]Ten bucks says Traitorfish knows where I formulated this post from.[/size]
Drugs work in fairly unpredictable ways in different patients. Some patients see no benefit from SSRI X, have their medication upped to 2X, and experience a marked improvement. Others see no positive effects and/or intolerable side effects at 4X (the maximum dose for drug X) and get switched to Y, which improves their functioning. The side effects intensify because of spillage into unwanted trays, to use your metaphor. Yet more patients see nothing from either X or Y and end up on non-SSRI drug Z, which works far better. Other things also matter: counseling, exercise, meditation, diet, sunlight, etc. Some people respond better to those than any drug, and generally combinations of medication and other approaches work better than any one thing by itself.

As for OTC drugs that act as SSRIs: I wouldn't exactly call them SSRIs because they're not selective: they usually affect other neurotransmitter systems substantially. But they may inhibit serotonin uptake, so I'll call them SRIs. Benadryl does inhibit serotonin reuptake; this effect actually helped lead to the discovery of real SSRIs. Benadryl acts on a bunch of other neurotransmitter systems too, including histamine and acetylcholine among others. People who OD on it often end up delirious and have true hallucinations, which they can't distinguish from reality, and end up doing dangerous things even if they wouldn't have died from the Benadryl alone.

Dextromethorphan (aka DXM; active ingredient in most OTC cough syrup) is another SRI - some users deliberately take overdoses for the dissociative hallucinations, but others use it at least in part for its effects on the serotonin system (edit: but it's still quite dangerous; needless to say, it's a very bad idea to use it to self-medicate). It also has impacts on the sigma opioid receptors, NMDA receptors, and several others. There is some research as well on ketamine (an anesthetic, another NMDA receptor antagonist, and another dissociative hallucinogen), at sub-hallucinogenic doses; there's some promise here too, although it will probably be a while before it is approved for depression treatment.

And that's just scratching the surface. We don't really know if there's a serotonin-based "chemical imbalance" in the brains of depressed patients, although SSRIs tend to help more often than not. Dopamine and norepinephrine are also affected by some drugs approved for depression, and there are probable NMDA effects, and other neurotransmitter effects as well. It might really be a whole constellation of diseases that present about the same way. Brains are difficult to understand.

tl;dr: We don't understand enough about the brain. It's really complicated, and drugs that treat depression for some people don't for others. Same for non-drug interventions.

Do you mean chemist?
Pharmacology is all biochemistry, so it's both really.
 
Sadness is an appropriate feeling. I can list a bunch of things I feel sad about. Plenty of them I have felt sadness about for a long long time, without any lack of appropriateness. Death of a loved one, sadness is an appropriate feeling. It is even appropriate years later when something brings the loved one to mind.

Depression is a condition. Unlike sadness it is not particularly 'about' anything. It characteristically produces reenforcing behaviors, as in I was depressed so I didn't get out of bed, then I had nothing to distract me so I spent the day alternating between feeling sad about being depressed and feeling frustrated because my depression was keeping me from doing anything, and at the end of the day I berated myself for having wasted the day. The next day (no surprise here) I woke up even more depressed.

When I am depressed I focus on two things...avoiding the reenforcing behaviors I know are particularly easy for me to fall into, and doing things that make other people happy.
 
At least for me personally depression is not really sadness necessarily, it's a metal state where you have completely lost any sort of motivation. You literally cannot find the effort to be productive or are severely crippled in that department. It's like people have a certain reserve of effort or motivation and no matter what you do when your depressed it doesn't come back.

For the record, I have Type I Bipolar Disorder so people with Major Depressive Disorder may have a different experience.
 
And that's just scratching the surface. We don't really know if there's a serotonin-based "chemical imbalance" in the brains of depressed patients...
I have suffered from depression for many years, long before my formal diagnosis in 2001. It was explained to me about serotonin and chemical imbalances, so that's how I explained it to my mother, who has the ignorant notion that people who take anti-depressants and have therapy must either be weak-minded or crazy. I got a bit of that from my uncle as well, when he came to visit. When I explained about the diagnosis and medication, he said, "But you're not crazy, (Valka)... are you?" :confused:

I've had some pretty bleak periods over the years, including a few months ago when everything just seemed empty and pointless. Thank goodness for the cats - if not for them, I honestly doubt I'd have a reason to get out of bed most mornings.
 
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