2020 US Election (Part One)

[Timsup2nothin]

"Biden is running against Trump, Sanders is running against Biden" suggests that, of the two, only Sanders understand that he has to win a primary before he can proceed to the general. It doesn't seem intuitive to take this as an indicator of Biden's superior political cunning.

It has nothing to do with "political cunning," it has to do with recognizing the enemy rather than running on "we hate everybody but us."

 

[Lexicus]

It has nothing to do with "political cunning," it has to do with recognizing the enemy rather than running on "we hate everybody."

It's sort of absurd to suggest that the Democratic establishment and rabid anticommunists don't regard Bernie and his supporters as the enemy, though.

 

[Hrothbern]

How do white Californians vote nowadays?
Didn't it rather turn blue because it went in just a few decades from 80% white to minority-majority? And the biggest minority in Cali (Mexicans) votes Dem in the US. Seems to be the same driving force making Texas purple.

On the surface, beside the Silicon vallry high educated effect, that white-non-white seemed to me plausible, but when I digged in a bit I saw this table and that shows that the Dems are in majority among whites.
I also learned that the definition of whites plays a role.
The normal way to define of a white is a 100% white, which helps fearmongering by the more extreme conservatives that the "whites" are disappearing. But how about non-white people who are 75% white, etc ?

So I digged a bit deeper, and then came this defense industry collapse, perfectly fitting with the end of the Cold War... therefore my question and Tim adding the desillusion effect.

What I perhaps now should add (because of your post) is that when that defense industry was collapsing together with more cheap labor as bottom and more educated from high-tech... I think the GOP panicked, and was so "clever" to hold a referendum to forbid schools to illegal children and forbid urgent medical care to illegals. And that referendum got a majority but wasdeclared unconstitutional in Court.
What started as an action to bully Latino's into an underclass and to move out of California, had as effect that the legal Latino's "learned" on who to vote (the Dems) and that turning out was important.

https://www.ppic.org/publication/race-and-voting-in-california/

 

[Lexicus]

The majority of unscrupulous GOP shenanigans playing out across the country now originated with the Republican Party of California as the state was flipping thirty years ago.

And?

 

[Gorbles]

Refer this post.

Sure, but surely you can tell the differences between your feeling watching a speech and making sweeping claims about how an entire movement is "rotten". I'm not meaning to disparage your feelings on Sanders here either, but there's a wealth of difference between your measured response to something you've watched vs. "this one politician is a cult of personality" like people don't vote for Biden (or Warren, or whomever) on personality either.

My feelings on cults of personality in this regard, the whole thing about populism, is complicated. I voted for Labour under Corbyn (and to be fair, Labour / anyone who had a chance vs. the Tories in general) in the UK, and there's been a lot of Discourse there. Some discourse fairer than other discourse. And the latter is the vibe I'm getting here. Biden has a lengthy list of flaws, and has people voting for him purely for his moderate position on the US political spectrum (so, you know, roughly around centre-right, or perhaps even slightly to the right of Obama). He's the "safe" option. And there's value to that, undoubtably. But there's value to Sanders too (and Warren, though I believe she's done everything she can to shoot her electability in the foot, I'd still prefer her over Biden).

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's sort of absurd to suggest that the Democratic establishment and rabid anticommunists don't regard Bernie and his supporters as the enemy, though.

Well, beyond a certain point of being vilified you have to acknowledge that the vilifying party is not your friend. Doesn't mean that you have to set out to nuke them, but you have to keep an eye on them when they show up at your house for a party.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

And?

In the long run they failed.

 

[Traitorfish]

Well, beyond a certain point of being vilified you have to acknowledge that the vilifying party is not your friend. Doesn't mean that you have to set out to nuke them, but you have to keep an eye on them when they show up at your house for a party.

You imagine that establishment Democrats would be willing to give Sanders a seat at the table if he was just a little bit nicer to them?

 

[Takhisis]

Since the 30s that has always been how Democrats* win farmers.

*And Republicans, because Republican opposition to Big Government doesn't seem to extent to dropping $24 billion on bribes to farmers to cover up Trumps ridiculous trade war.

Yeah, I already knew about the agricultural subsidies. It's a major bone of contention whenever US governments tell the rest of the continent to sacrifice their own agricultural production systems while they subsidise their own highly uncompetitive structures and, say, drive Haiti even further into production because suddenly locally-grown rice has a higher price than rice flown in from the US.

You input 'democratic election', but all my output is showing is 'reality show'. Must be something wrong with the translator.

Nope. They're synonyms.

Hyponym and hypernym, respectively, for the discerning mind.

I heard Sarah Palin is available, and she has great experience!

She can see Russia from her house!!!

Actually that was Tina Fey. Can't you tell them apart?

 

[Lexicus]

In the long run they failed.

And? That means they'll fail this time? One of the reasons they failed was because they didn't dare try anything too egregious because the federal government and the courts would stop them if they tried. Do those impediments still exist?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You imagine that establishment Democrats would be willing to give Sanders a seat at the table if he was just a little bit nicer to them?

Dunno, but I'm pretty sure that "until you join my movement you are the enemy scum and as bad as Trump" isn't a really likely approach to get people to take a seat at his table, and that as a candidate filling the seats at his table is of more direct importance than getting a seat at someone elses.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

I am sympathetic to the argument that Sanders could have tried to court the establishment a bit more, but Warren received about 1/4 of the endorsements Biden did, and she is less antagonistic to the corporate wing of the party, and I think it's clear if you flip out Sanders, for, say, AOC, Tlaib, or Omar, the end result is the same; superdelegates, Obama, Hillary, etc., all rallying behind the primary moderate. I kind of want to see it just to see the utter chaos it'd cause for people to make sense of.

 

[Farm Boy]

Actually that was Tina Fey. Can't you tell them apart?

Tina Fey is Sarah Palin in popular memory.

 

[Traitorfish]

Dunno, but I'm pretty sure that "until you join my movement you are the enemy scum and as bad as Trump" isn't a really likely approach to get people to take a seat at his table, and that as a candidate filling the seats at his table is of more direct importance than getting a seat at someone elses.

Sanders campaign has been successful because a large number of voters, especially young voters, have independently conclude that people like Biden are their enemy- or, at least, that they're no sort of friend. They didn't need Sanders to tell them that. This is a profound structural weakness in the contemporary Democratic Party, and it's deeply naive to imagine that this can simply be kicked four years down the road in the name of party unity.

It doesn't matter how unpleasant the Republican candidate is, if the Democratic leadership cannot find a way to address the fact that a significant part of their base hates their guts they will never hold national power again.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

And? That means they'll fail this time? One of the reasons they failed was because they didn't dare try anything too egregious because the federal government and the courts would stop them if they tried. Do those impediments still exist?

Hard to tell.

 

[Takhisis]

Tina Fey is Sarah Palin in popular memory.

See the video.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Sanders campaign has been successful

I deleted the rest of the quote because before it is relevant you are going to have to defend this premise. When exactly has his campaign been successful?

 

[Farm Boy]

See the video.

Doesn't look any worse than 30 Rock.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Sanders campaign has been successful because a large number of voters, especially young voters, have independently conclude that people like Biden are their enemy- or, at least, that they're no sort of friend. They didn't need Sanders to tell them that. This is a profound structural weakness in the contemporary Democratic Party, and it's deeply naive to imagine that this can simply be kicked four years down the road in the name of party unity.

It doesn't matter how unpleasant the Republican candidate is, if the Democratic leadership cannot find a way to address the fact that a significant part of their base hates their guts they will never hold national power again.

It's all good; my wife is going into mental health treatment for sexual assault/domestic abuse survivors, something that has a monumentally apocalyptic shortage of funding and resources, and is going to walk out of school with over 100k in loan debt because of the education it requires, but ever since Biden said millennials have it easy and need to suck it up (maybe by touching more preteen girls? idk), I have decided he is not my enemy.

 

[Traitorfish]

I deleted the rest of the quote because before it is relevant you are going to have to defend this premise. When exactly has his campaign been successful?

I would not have thought it contentious to describe a relative political outsider winning over forty percent of declared delegates "successful". If insisting upon this will cause unnecessary distress, I am happy to amend my claim to "as successful as he has been". But the point remains unchanged: Sanders has successfully appealed to sections of the electorate who are either disenchanted with the Democratic leadership, or actively hostile to it. He did not create this sentiment, he has simply given it voice at a [edit: national] level. Pretending that this is not the case because admitting as much is inconvenient for your short-term political goals is, at best, naive, at worst, wilfully self-destructive.