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Coronavirus 3: The Resurgence

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by red_elk, Jun 27, 2020.

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  1. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    True. But here it's not just the police, it's everyone. Citizens are refusing to comply and there is not one single government agency or department that is willing to take on the task of enforcement. That's why I laugh whenever someone says something like "but the governor said..." or "but city council passed an ordinance..."

    This is a perfect example of why people shouldn't fear the government or follow any new law until the government shows they are actually willing and capable of enforcing it.

    It's only harmful to them though. You'll have to forgive me if I'm not going to weep for a bunch of college students who are only here to use our education system and then take that education back to their home country for its benefit instead of ours.

    And I'm not abandoning my principles at all. I am against government overreach. I just don't see this as government overreach.

    Not at all. You are just drinking the Kool-Aid that foreigners are a requirement for all of that. They aren't.
     
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  2. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

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    Why would you argue this point? The universities are clearly going to work around it in the spirit of American rejection of centralized capriciousness, then go ahead and offer education while collecting tuition where they can(they're being annihilated financially by the loss of on-campus revenue), and reopen as soon as they can and hope they haven't bled so much they die.
     
  3. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Not at all the same as your example. They were given permission to come to the US for the period of their academic studies, studies they paid the universities for, and partway through those studies permission is being withdrawn.
     
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  4. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Seems to me that this is a problem for the US and an opportunity for all other developed countries.
    Up to civil society of the US to be concerned about loss of knowlege potential and cheap research labor and take action through the normal channels available in the US to change it.

    I wonder in how far a foreign sudent can sue the US government
    1. for the lost study progress for which money was paid
    2. for the disruption of finishing a study in planned time. In effect the lost job years.
     
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    Which is the government's prerogative. To go back to my analogy, if I say you can stay with me for a week as long as you do my dishes, I still reserve the right to demand you leave after two days even if you are living up to your end of the bargain.

    The US revoked visas all the time for reasons a lot more petty than this. They revoke visas over things like spelling mistakes on paperwork.

    And it's not like these students have no recourse. If they feel their visas are being unfairly revoked there is an appeals process. It's not like ICE agents are just going to kick down their door and cart them off in the middle of the night.
     
  6. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    You absolutely need foreigners to have the world's best university system. You really have people that have worked all over the world coming to a good university to have access to people with the most cutting edge skills and knowledge. If you exclude yourself from the global community of scientists you will not have the worlds best scientists therefore not the worlds best research therefore not the worlds best university.
     
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  7. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    We aren't excluding ourselves from the global community though. This only affects students taking online-only courses. And they aren't being disenrolled from their universities or prevented from continuing their studies at an American university. They just can't actually reside within the US if they are only taking online classes.
     
  8. Aleksey_aka_al

    Aleksey_aka_al Smiley

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    Good trend.

    Moderator Action: It is not wise to troll a moderator. --LM
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2020
  9. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    I was responding purely to your apparent statement that you could have the worlds best universities without ANY foreigners. I get the any was not in your statement, and it makes much more sense with the context.

    I would say that in the UK, the loss of the foreign students is a really big problem for the universities, as they get loads of their money from them. But then flying from all over the world to meet up in big groups with "potentially relaxed inhibitions" may not be a great idea. There are not so many good options here.
     
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  10. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    I do know that a lot of Chinese students who came to the UK to study at UK universities are saying what
    is the point of being here if I have to stay in my flat and study online, I can do that just as well from China.
     
  11. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    It's also moronic to harass and shame people for not wearing a mask, which has been happening a hell of a lot more than harassment of people wearing masks.

    It even happened at my work. One city employee was harassing another because he wasn't wearing a mask. The masked employee was literally standing in the way of the one without a mask and was demanding that my security guard kick him out of the building while ranting hysterically about the new city ordinance. I'm glad my guard followed my instructions and refused to kick the employee out. I told my guards all they can do is remind everyone about wearing masks, but if they refuse there's nothing more that can be done. And since both the police and the Health Department refuse to enforce the ordinance, I certainly don't expect my guards to.
     
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  12. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Depends on your study, the kind of knowledge.

    Depends on students that group up to share and help each other.

    I did chemistry and most of the theoretical knowledge I had to learn was much better described, explained in books than teached by teachers.
    The most important knowledge for me was doing the practica, learning all the devices, equipment, their capabilities and "trade secrets"". and the manual techniques. And enough time for talking with practica teachers and friends on theory.
    Within a half year I had skipped all my colleges, went only the first lesson to get an impression and to know who to greet. And only followed the colleges of all three philosophy courses because there the teacher had meaningful input.
     
  13. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    No. I understand the larger point that you are trying to make here, but this specific example you are giving isn't correct. But of course contracting a leasehold interest in residential property in exchange for services is not at all like the US Government granting a Visa. The Government can pretty much revoke a Visa at their pleasure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  14. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    That depends on the local statistical chance that the maskless person is a carrier and whether honey or vinegar is the better tool.
    No one looking at an unmasked person knows they're safe and there are going to be local statistics as to whether the unmasked person knows if they're safe. We do know that the maskless person is willing to signal that they don't care, so treating a person who doesn't care as if they're delinquent in other ways is going to happen. Then it's just a honey or vinegar question.
     
  15. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    Nope. Harassment is wrong no matter the reason behind it. Also, the average citizen is not law enforcement, thus they have no authority to stop someone who is minding their own business and demand they comply with some ordinance that not even the actual authorities are willing to enforce.
     
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  16. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    And I sure hope you remember this opinion of yours the next time you're aghast at why people don't oppose what you do perceive as overreach then. By settling it as effectively some form of opinion, you abdicate any responsibility at defining it in any way that is consistent across a group of people.
     
  17. tuckerkao

    tuckerkao King

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    Coronavirus is a big test for America, what the final grade will it be? Nobody knows it yet, but it's really a big winner for America to have the #1 Covid cases and death across the entire world.

    If America is really strong enough, Covid-19 should just be another type of flu.

    President Trump still boast how America(409) has lower fatality rate per million population compare to France(459) and Italy(578). I'd like to see those numbers on Sep 1st, 2020 because America is catching up those numbers very quick due to the facts that the quadruple Covid hotspots are raging in Texas, Florida, California and Arizona. Whereas, France and Italy see very few new deaths during the recent weeks.
     
  18. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

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    A maskless piece of **** tried to pick a fight with me when I silently backed away from his wanna-snuggle distance in a grocery line. A senior citizen politely backed me up until retardo decided to mind his manners.
     
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  19. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    I've noticed that people in the US seem to be making big political issues of small practical things. Mask wearing is to address a specific circumstance that will be limited in time anyway, a practical issue. Why make it a divisive political issue?

    And the practical issue here is the necessity of everyone (or nearly everyone) to wear masks if the virus is to be defeated (though that alone is not enough). The sooner it's done the sooner the whole episode can be left behind. There's a very rational, practical reason to harass people for not wearing masks.
    The problem there, as in many places, is that the government has not presented a coherent strategy to extinguish the virus and thus make the effort worthwhile. Obviously there is more resistance if the things looks in part like theater without purpose. There is purpose of course: even 50% of people wearing mask still slows down the virus. But this is death by a thousand cuts. It's the wrong strategy.
     
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  20. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    This is why I get upset when people harass me for not wearing pants.
     
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