Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[Leoreth]

Alright, Mughalistan sounds worse than Pakistan (or Afghanistan) and encompasses the core area of modern day India. Also, In the modern era, the point of this is not to represent India but the following empires / nations: the Durrani Empire and the modern day nations of Afghanistan and Pakistan

I was under the impression that Mughalistan refers to the original Mughal holdings around Ferghana?

I think it was only called Karachi after the British advent; although im not sure.

Daibul is certainly anachronistic, and Kolachi was an Indian city there. I couldn't find anything on what exactly caused the rename, though.

You bring up a valid point when you point out that Pakistan is a name only applicable to a small area but I still dont agree with you on not the part of that the civ should not be able to survive. Imo, after the Maratha or British conquer Delhi and most of the Mughal holdings in India, i think it would make sense to let the Empire continue as the Emirate of Afghanistan (which also included most of Pakistan and significant parts of Central Asia as seen from the map below)

That's just the game mechanics. Afghanistan is not part of the Mughal core, i.e. they'll get a severe stability penalty when they only own cities there.

Now here is my plan on dynamic names, considering that you add a system similar to that of Linkman's (or just copy his system) where features from SOI are imported; features like Dynastaic Names (for civs like China and Arabia), name change according to territory (for civs like the Moguls and Maratha), and flag and leaderhead changes (communist China, USSR among others)

Dynamic Names:
Ghorid Empire: start out with this.
Delhi Sultanate: Conquest of Delhi.
Mughal Empire: on 1526 ad.

I will, but not too soon, so we'll need working names for Rhye's system. And just as a note, the civ spawns at Delhi or flips it on spawn if present, so the Ghorids are without purpose here.

Now for the tricky part:
-If the Mughals survive the British and the Marathas and maintain hemogeny over most of India: the the name stays as the Mughal Empire until empire switches to Democracy or enter the modern era when name will be changed to India (will follow Indian Dynamic names) and the flag will also be changed. I say this because in retrospect if you look at it, it is likely that the Hindus would have asked for greater rights sooner or later if the Empire had managed to survive or the people would have asked for democracy.

How should that work out if "India" is still present?

I think its fine for the civ to represent both the Mughals and then later, Pakistan. It looks pretty good so far anyway. Are they going to be a full civ, or some kind of unplayable minor (ie. the celts)? I seem to remember you suggesting they would be unplayable, but to be honest I think that would be pointless and they'd be awesome to play .

Unplayable major it is currently, for two reasons:

a) I've added them primarily for realism reasons, so nothing's done for UP and UHV etc. yet.
b) There's a little problem with the autoplay mode (it doesn't work if your later spawn plot is occupied by a city, as it always is in 600 AD), and I want to save me the work of circumventing that.

Slightly concerned about the colour scheme though, to me at least they look just the same as Khmer!

The Khmer have a little less hue, i.e. are more gray. The current color is simply borrowed from SoI out of laziness, a still can make it a little less brownish for contrast.

If they are to represent Pakistan as well, maybe one of their UHV's could be to obtain a nuclear weapon?

Sure.

 

[civ_king]

I was under the impression that Mughalistan refers to the original Mughal holdings around Ferghana?


Daibul is certainly anachronistic, and Kolachi was an Indian city there. I couldn't find anything on what exactly caused the rename, though.


That's just the game mechanics. Afghanistan is not part of the Mughal core, i.e. they'll get a severe stability penalty when they only own cities there.


I will, but not too soon, so we'll need working names for Rhye's system. And just as a note, the civ spawns at Delhi or flips it on spawn if present, so the Ghorids are without purpose here.


How should that work out if "India" is still present?


Unplayable major it is currently, for two reasons:

a) I've added them primarily for realism reasons, so nothing's done for UP and UHV etc. yet.
b) There's a little problem with the autoplay mode (it doesn't work if your later spawn plot is occupied by a city, as it always is in 600 AD), and I want to save me the work of circumventing that.


The Khmer have a little less hue, i.e. are more gray. The current color is simply borrowed from SoI out of laziness, a still can make it a little less brownish for contrast.


Sure.

IIRC Kolachi also referred to it when under Mughals

Afghanistan should be Historic for Mughals if not core

Then it can become Pakistan

So it is unplayable until partially finished? Works for me

 

[Jusos2108]

It may refer to a larger area but it still doesn't refer to most of the area where this civ will be.

Nontheless the area that Pakistan refers to is way better for Mughals than Afghanistan.

 

[BenZL43]

IMO..
Since there's a code to split a civ (HRE > Germany + Prussia),
then there's must be a way to un-split a civ (union)..
Can this algorithm works?

IF era = modern, Mughal & Maratha both alive, unified to form the Republic of India by 1950s
else
IF only Mughal alive = Islamic Republic of India
else
IF only Maratha alive = Republic of India

and

IF and only IF Mughal and Maratha unified, and Mughal have cities in Afghanistan territory,
when Mughal and Maratha unified, the city become independent (represent Afghanistan) or Barbarian *Taliban*

Is that possible or am I making things worse?
btw. Still haven't got any ancient scientist name for Indonesia..

 

[IrishDragon]

-If the Mughals collapse; than whenever India declares independence of foreign occupation a separate country emerges as Pakistan (consisting of Pakistan and Afghanistan). If India is already present in the form of the Marathas than independence becomes likely after the discovery of nationalism:
Islamic Republic of Pakistan: Democracy
People's Republic of Pakistan: Communist
Dominion of Pakistan: Vassal of Britain
Protectorate of Pakistan: Default Vassal
If independence is reached before 1850 or the capital is in Afghanistan for some reason (like all other cities are destroyed): then the name become Afghanistan and follows the second system stated above.

It would probably need to be tied to the cities in the region being Islamic to make sense if you follow that route, and India being another religion

 

[J. pride]

That's just the game mechanics. Afghanistan is not part of the Mughal core, i.e. they'll get a severe stability penalty when they only own cities there.

Afghanistan should be part of the Mughal historical area; and they wont only have cities there but also cities like Lahore or Multan around the Indus.

How should that work out if "India" is still present?

Well there's two ways i can think of getting around this:
1) A collapse of the weaker power after a certain date. This may sound scripted but imo is the best solution.
2) A merger which can be a last resort but I dont like it as it would make a superpowered India.

Nontheless the area that Pakistan refers to is way better for Mughals than Afghanistan.

Ok, maybe you didnt see my map before but Afghanistan included Pakistan before the British invasion; not to mention that Pakistan is ahistorical for most of the game, Pakistan as an entity has no pre-modern history whatsoever. If you know anything about the foundation of Afghanistan, you would know that Ahmad Shah Durrani, the founder of Afghanistan was born in Multan (Pakistan). The best solution is if the Afghans stay then the region becomes Afghanistan; if the country respawns after a foreign occupation it becomes Pakistan:

--If the Mughals lose India; their capital should change to a city in Afghanistan and they should get a flag and leaderhead change and name change. Remeber if the British/Sikhs had not conquered large parts of Afghanistan (present day Pakistan) then Pakistan would not have been a country but rather part of Afghanistan.

--If the Mughals collapse; than whenever India declares independence of foreign occupation a separate country emerges as Pakistan (consisting of Pakistan and Afghanistan). If India is already present in the form of the Marathas than independence becomes likely after the discovery of nationalism

It would probably need to be tied to the cities in the region being Islamic to make sense if you follow that route, and India being another religion

That would be the case since Lahore would be founded by the Delhi Sultanate (thus they would also have missionary there) and Kandahar would be probably be conquered by the Arabs and/or flip to the Delhi Sultanate who again would spread Islam there

 

[Linkman226]

Yes, color scheme is an issue. Why not use SoI's Safavid color?

 

[Caesar Augustus]

Hi there, I've played RFC and now DoC for a little while now without commenting, so first of all great work to all of you. You've made an excellent game even better and honestly I can't imagine going back to vanilla. However, after updating to 1.73, I notice that Rome's UP isn't working. Any idea why? Some cache that needs deleting or is there a bigger problem here? Thanks for any assistance and keep up the excellent work, can't wait for 1.8!

 

[AOS9001]

Hi there, I've played RFC and now DoC for a little while now without commenting, so first of all great work to all of you. You've made an excellent game even better and honestly I can't imagine going back to vanilla. However, after updating to 1.73, I notice that Rome's UP isn't working. Any idea why? Some cache that needs deleting or is there a bigger problem here? Thanks for any assistance and keep up the excellent work, can't wait for 1.8!

Get that SVN stuff Leoreth mentions on the first page, it'll get your game up to date with where the rest of us are now. And many new features will be added, you will find.

 

[Caesar Augustus]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm giving it a try but it keeps telling me that it cannot create the Dawn of Civilization folder because access is denied. In any case, I can't be the only person who defaults to a simple download over this newfangled SVN thingamajig, so I still hold out hope that my concern over 1.73 might be looked into. Has anyone else had this issue?

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

You need to allow permissions for SVN in your folders as an administrator if you happen to be using Vista and beyond. I couldn't figure out how to get it to work myself for the longest time until I realized permissions in my Civ 4 folder were all denied.

 

[ozqar]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm giving it a try but it keeps telling me that it cannot create the Dawn of Civilization folder because access is denied. In any case, I can't be the only person who defaults to a simple download over this newfangled SVN thingamajig, so I still hold out hope that my concern over 1.73 might be looked into. Has anyone else had this issue?

You need to allow permissions for SVN in your folders as an administrator if you happen to be using Vista and beyond. I couldn't figure out how to get it to work myself for the longest time until I realized permissions in my Civ 4 folder were all denied.

This happened to me (and to some others). It seems you cannot allow tortoise to do changes to files in "C". So just SVN a folder on your desktop or your my documents folder and then copy paste it your Mods folder and rename it according to the instructions.

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, color scheme is an issue. Why not use SoI's Safavid color?

Blue? That's the Greek color in RFC.

Hi there, I've played RFC and now DoC for a little while now without commenting, so first of all great work to all of you. You've made an excellent game even better and honestly I can't imagine going back to vanilla. However, after updating to 1.73, I notice that Rome's UP isn't working. Any idea why? Some cache that needs deleting or is there a bigger problem here? Thanks for any assistance and keep up the excellent work, can't wait for 1.8!

IIRC I forgot to re-enable it when I uploaded 1.73.

Download and unpack this file into your Asstes\Python\ folder. If that doesn't solve the issue, report back

 

[Lone Wolf]

Is it possible to separate playable Byzantium (except the UP) from other features of this mod, or is it coded partially in dll? (Don't think that I am a Byzantinophile. Byzantinophiles suck ).

 

[Leoreth]

No, adding new civs isn't possible without DLL modding. Of course it'd possible to make a RFC + Byzantines mod, but this would basically mean to implement them completely from scratch.

 

[Gruekiller]

(Don't think that I am a Byzantinophile. Byzantinophiles suck ).

Well, I... I see how it is. *goes to the sad corner*

 

[Leoreth]

Committing the recent changes now.

Something's seriously messed up in the 3000 BC scenario currently. The major religions don't get founded in the places they're supposed to anymore; China almost never founds Confucianism and Taoism, India never Buddhism. None of my changes directly affected them, I'm completely lost. Maybe you can find out what's wrong by playing it.

 

[BenZL43]

Is it about Rome founding Confucianism and Confucian Europe or it's about something else issue I haven't catch up to yet?

 

[Leoreth]

It's Greek Confucianism most of the time, or Egypt founding Buddhism or even Zoroastrianism.

 

[AdrienIer]

Downloaded the SVN earlier this afternoon, and tried Indonesia. First and third goal seem achievable (even a bit too easy), but I'm puzzled by the second one.
There are 16 luxury resources in total : Singles, movies and sport events do not count as the UHV is in 1500. Same for whales. That leaves 12 resources available in the world at that time. The only wine in Asia is in Persia, so unless you're strong enough to fight the Mongols or Arabia it's not even worth trying.
You have in your territory : Sugar, Spice and Gems without going too far (a reasonable city placement is Palembang, Jakarta and that city in the west of Borneo which give you these), Dyes and Ivory are in Khmer territory (not too hard to conquer), you can have Gold and Silk if you go for the Philippines. That's 7 different resources, and you have to be quick when you go for the Philippines. You now have to get two resources between Fur, Incense, Silver and Cotton. Basically you can either go for India (but is it feasible ?), or trade for Cotton (usually possible with Mongolia) and attack Japan for Silver. IMO it's hardly feasible before 1500, and implies making ahistorical expansion. I would suggest reducing the number of resources to 7 or 8, and rising the 3rd UHV to 12 or 13%.

Also, I got near Sirajis 2 turns after it had been taken by the Mongols and there was no units in the city. The Mongols took no more cities after that, and there was no units there until a longbowman was built. I think it's strange that there was no more Mongol units in the middle east after they took Sirajis, while the area became totally barbarian (from Sana'a to Baghdad).