Decline in OT activity

[Leoreth]

Yet it was the persistence of those people that seems to have played a large part in what kept OT going. Everyone was tired of these threads, but as soon as the next thread came up we were all along for the ride again.

(Wasn't there even some kind of long hanging fruit pledge at some point?)

We've seen many of these posters leave the forum (voluntarily or not) since then, and it's hard to deny that this plays a role.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The world changes, so the tiresome topics change and so do the participants.

People who rose to the debate for every gay marriage thread over a period of years are tired, which is fine because the issue is tired. There are some vestiges of debate out in the midwest, but seriously, is there anyone who doesn't see either the dawn of the new day or the grim writing on the wall, depending on their point of view?

People who over invested their CFC OT persona in "gay marriage is an abomination that we just can't let happen" will leave, because the world didn't go their way. There is probably nothing to be done about that, because people who invested their persona in the other side are going to be smug about it. Those people may come back with a new persona, which may call for either a new screen name or some passage of time.

But there is always a new tiresome topic, and someone to take the unpopular side. And the world will either provide those who take the unpopular side the reward of seeing it become popular, or it won't. For what it's worth, I think a lot of the people who are "responsible for running off conservatives" consider me to be a radical, and I foresee many tiresome returns to the topics where we differ. As the conservatives drift back in they might find themselves on the same side of those topics as the people they used to dispute with. And the world will either back up me, or them, eventually.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Can't we just...sacrifice a bunch of goats or something?

 

[thecrazyscot]

What I meant is that people like Farm Boy have expressed more conservative opinions on certain issues and they still get along fine with the community.

But I mean, if you've been starting threads on why gay marriage is an abomination for YEARS... yeah, people are going to call you bigoted. Crying about being oppressed for your "views" is pathetic when those views are bigoted drivel.

It's impossible to have a constructive discussion about any topic when one side dismisses the other wholesale as "bigoted drivel". It does nothing but stifle discussion and create a smug, self-righteous, condescending clique.

There is value in having civilized discussions about matters that people feel very strongly about - very few people would come to OT at all if there weren't opposing viewpoints to argue against.

 

[Zack]

It's impossible to have a constructive discussion about any topic when one side dismisses the other wholesale as "bigoted drivel". It does nothing but stifle discussion and create a smug, self-righteous, condescending clique.

There is value in having civilized discussions about matters that people feel very strongly about - very few people would come to OT at all if there weren't opposing viewpoints to argue against.

It's the reality with some topics. Some things are one-sided.

Are you interested in a two-sided discussion of the Holocaust? Or slavery?

 

[warpus]

Or ghost farts.

 

[gay_Aleks]

That's why we don't have threads on any of these in recent times.

 

[thecrazyscot]

It's the reality with some topics. Some things are one-sided.

Are you interested in a two-sided discussion of the Holocaust? Or slavery?

When slavery was an issue, two-sided discussions were had and progress was made. There were also people who weren't interested in having a civilized discourse, and we're still feeling the results.

I'm not saying that everyone you have a civilized discussion with will change their opinion, but more people are willing to listen to what you have to say when you're not telling them they're idiots, which will only entrench their opinions further. Stifling discussion doesn't make it go away.

 

[Traitorfish]

I don't understand their appeal anyways - just fire up Google/Bing and you've got all the nipples you could possibly want without the interruption of any commentary.

For me? Sheer posturing. "I'm so indie, I don't ogle conventionally attractive women with large breasts, I ogle conventionally attractive women with large breasts and sleeve tattoos." It's so you all know how cool and counter-cultural I am.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Hmm. Judging by your post record in the Babes thread, don't you post more of the latter as opposed to the former?

 

[Traitorfish]

That was my point, yeah.

 

[cybrxkhan]

And I get to, on occasion, hint at distaste for inferior, decadent Western babes who are part of the decadent, barbaric Western culture. On occasion. Most of the time I'm just a hypocrite.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

When slavery was an issue, two-sided discussions were had and progress was made. There were also people who weren't interested in having a civilized discourse, and we're still feeling the results.

I'm not saying that everyone you have a civilized discussion with will change their opinion, but more people are willing to listen to what you have to say when you're not telling them they're idiots, which will only entrench their opinions further. Stifling discussion doesn't make it go away.

This illustrates the point I made earlier. It is basically impossible to have a two sided discussion about slavery at this point, and we all know it. Some of the dead horse topics around here are approaching that same zone. But new ones arise.

And there will always be name calling and bluster in those two sided discussions. The people who really 'carried the freight' for the pro side of the slavery discussion didn't suddenly come around, they slinked off in defeat. They didn't disappear, they just ducked out long enough that their former opponents got past the urge to rub it in, then they came back and all got together to complain about carpetbaggers.

 

[thecrazyscot]

This illustrates the point I made earlier. It is basically impossible to have a two sided discussion about slavery at this point, and we all know it. Some of the dead horse topics around here are approaching that same zone. But new ones arise.

And there will always be name calling and bluster in those two sided discussions. The people who really 'carried the freight' for the pro side of the slavery discussion didn't suddenly come around, they slinked off in defeat. They didn't disappear, they just ducked out long enough that their former opponents got past the urge to rub it in, then they came back and all got together to complain about carpetbaggers.

True, but the reason it's impossible to have a two-sided discussion about slavery now is that 99% (although I guess there's no recent polls on the issue...) of the population believes it to be wrong. That's not the case about gay marriage, especially when it's still winding its way through court systems. The very fact that it's being hotly debated in the courts is an example of discussion that is currently occurring...although I make no claims as to the civility of all of it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

True, but the reason it's impossible to have a two-sided discussion about slavery now is that 99% (although I guess there's no recent polls on the issue...) of the population believes it to be wrong. That's not the case about gay marriage, especially when it's still winding its way through court systems. The very fact that it's being hotly debated in the courts is an example of discussion that is currently occurring...although I make no claims as to the civility of all of it.

Thing is, it is actually winding down. It isn't the fait accompli that abolition of slavery is, but as I said earlier one side is seeing 'done deal, yay!' and the other is seeing 'done deal, grim'. It isn't even really being hotly debated in courts, just finalized. The ship has sailed, and people who said things against it that were too heated to recover from are going to mostly impose a time out on themselves. Not that their own views are changed, just that the futility of continuing to debate becomes obvious at a certain point.

 

[warpus]

Most of the western world has made its mind up about gay marriage a while ago, it seems. Outlying and/or backwards American states are the exceptions, no?

 

[gay_Aleks]

Yes but unfortunately not all is revolving around The Western World.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Sure, the legality of gay marriage is winding down slowly, but the discussion isn't over until we get the ruling. That doesn't end the discussion of the resulting issues, which we're still seeing (can a restaurant refuse to service a gay wedding) and will continue to see. And to get to my original point, it still isn't justified to tell someone that their position is just bigoted drivel and dismiss it out of hand.

I've purposefully tried to keep out of the gay marriage threads as my own position lies in somewhere in between, and I really didn't feel like defending against those who thought I went too far and those who thought I didn't go far enough.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Sure, the legality of gay marriage is winding down slowly, but the discussion isn't over until we get the ruling. That doesn't end the discussion of the resulting issues, which we're still seeing (can a restaurant refuse to service a gay wedding) and will continue to see. And to get to my original point, it still isn't justified to tell someone that their position is just bigoted drivel and dismiss it out of hand.

I've purposefully tried to keep out of the gay marriage threads as my own position lies in somewhere in between, and I really didn't feel like defending against those who thought I went too far and those who thought I didn't go far enough.

Understood. I just think the whole "let's try an end run disguised as religious freedom" bit is a pretty good indication that the actual battle is over.

 

[warpus]

Yes but unfortunately not all is revolving around The Western World.

Actually, most of the planet sort of revolves around it.. in more ways than one.