Define "Left".

[IdiotsOpposite]

Lolwut?

Don't mind him, he still believes in the Sarah Palin death panels. One of the nuttier ideas to come from the right wing ~

 

[Takhisis]

*walks away slowly without making any sudden moves*

 

[madviking]

Left, imo, is collectivism. Right is market liberalism.

 

[Tahuti]

Left, imo, is collectivism.

That wouldn't explain the strongly individualistic tendencies of the New Left.

 

[Mise]

And the market liberalism of Third Way leftists.

 

[Ailedhoo]

In other words, lets reward unproductivity.

When need having a safety net and having empathy became "reward the unproductive?"

By the way liberals are not defined to the realm of the ecomonic left. It would be a mistake to presume the Soviet Union as a liberal society for exsample.

It is also a mistake to presum that liberals and lefties are pro-state. There are pro-state righties and, unless I am mistaken, both the American Republican party and the American Democrat party is pro-authority.

 

[Synobun]

When need having a safety net and having empathy became "reward the unproductive?"

Didn't you know? Providing an opportunity to get better for the people in a tough spot is just encouraging LAZINESS!

Homeless people are homeless because they are failures. It's their fault for being in rags, maybe they should have learned how to work in the fields a bit better.

[size=-5]Very slight chance of sarcasm above.[/size]

 

[salty mud]

The left DOES reward productivity, since the state is expected to provide so much more than a right-wing state.

 

[Ailedhoo]

The left DOES reward productivity, since the state is expected to provide so much more than a right-wing state.

Once again: THE LEFT IS NOT THE SOLE DOMAIN OF STATE FANS!

The view of the state can be independent from ecomonic left and right, as well as the position on civil liberties.

 

[Traitorfish]

What do you mean with more inequality? Things like "positive discrimination"?

Or the conflict between equality of treatment vs. equality of outcome (i.e. taxing the rich more than the poor could be argued to be unequal treatment, even though it desires to make their wealth more equal)?

Both, really. Taking the NHS again, we have inequality of treatment, because not everybody is charged the same for access to it, and inequality of outcome, because (obviously enough) not everybody uses it to the same extent. The egalitarian dimension lies in the fact that it undermines the power-relationships inherent in private healthcare provision.

 

[Tahuti]

The egalitarian dimension lies in the fact that it undermines the power-relationships inherent in private healthcare provision.

I guess that depends on how either private or public provision of health care is executed. You could theoretically have a perfectly egalitarian private provision of health care through mutualist cooperation or have a government provided healthcare system that - for example - excludes minorities from participating etc.
Government vs. Private health care is just a way of approaching health care's relation to economics. It doesn't decide how health care should be provided, only who's providing it.

Coming to think of it, the Left could be best defined as anti-particularism while the Right is particularism. Things traditionally associated with Right-Wing politics such as Ultra-Nationalism and Religious Fundamentalism are often against the common interest, and not seldom self-consciously so. If you are a fundamentalist Muslim or Christian, you self-consciously act against the interests of those who aren't. Left-wingers are opposed to that. If you're ultranationalistic, you selfconsciously act against the interests of those outside your nation. And Left-Wingers are opposed to that as well.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

In other words, lets reward unproductivity.

Yeah all those people with full time jobs that get cancer but can't afford the treatment because the private healthcare market wildly inflates prices in this country.....they are so unproductive it's rediculous.

MobBoss, you're a veritable goldmine. Please keep ignoring relevant, well thought-out rebutals to you in favor of zingy meaningless one-liners.

 

[madviking]

And the market liberalism of Third Way leftists.

"Third way leftism"? That sounds like a bunch of random words taped together.

That wouldn't explain the strongly individualistic tendencies of the New Left.

Individualism is neither left nor right wing.

 

[Crezth]

I guess that depends on how either private or public provision of health care is executed. You could theoretically have a perfectly egalitarian private provision of health care through mutualist cooperation or have a government provided healthcare system that - for example - excludes minorities from participating etc.

Is it really "private" anymore at that point? "Private" enterprise is, fundamentally, particularist.

In other words, lets reward unproductivity.

Why not?

 

[Cutlass]

In other words, lets reward unproductivity.

That's all that Republican economic policy does

 

[Formaldehyde]

Don't mind him, he still believes in the Sarah Palin death panels. One of the nuttier ideas to come from the right wing ~

Freedom of speech FTW once again.

It is also a very "nutty idea" to think that providing a subsistence existence for all Americans is rewarding "unproductivity", whatever that means. They should try living on minimum wage while not living in their parents' basement.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I heard in America the right aproves of rewarding 100,000 dollar for unproductivity.

They're even eager to point this out.

 

[Crezth]

It is also a very "nutty idea" to think that providing a subsistence existence for all Americans is rewarding "unproductivity", whatever that means. They should try living on minimum wage while not living in their parents' basement.

I like the insinuation that a person's worth is all about economic utility. Very humane.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I heard in America the right aproves of rewarding 100,000 dollar for unproductivity.

They're even eager to point this out.

What do you mean? I'm curious.

 

[Dachs]

What do you mean? I'm curious.

It's about the whole Romney/Bain thing.