Define "Left".
- Thread starter IdiotsOpposite
- Start date
del62
Deity
Only if you were one of Ken's people
Oruc
Reactionary
Nope!
Quackers
The Frog
Ken Livingstone is probably a bit too far to the left for WIM 
The why the right's fetish with the state granting individual liabilty protection to those that participate in the market via a collective entity?
Tahuti
Writing Deity
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 9,492
Very strictly speaking, the Left vs. Right dichotomy is an 18th century French conception. You know, those who favored the Catholic Church, the Monarchy and the Aristocracy were the Right, and those in favor of Secularism, Republicanism and Democracy were the Left. All modern use of Left vs. Right dichotomies can all be traced back to the French Revolution and if you use the Left-Right dichotomy in the context of nominally proclaimed values, the definition of Left and Right can be applied fairly consistently and universally across time and culture. The Left favors equality and progress, the Right order and tradition. The 18th century Left promoted Laissez-Faire Capitalism in order bring down the Aristocracy, for the same reasons the Left may now advocate government intervention: To achieve equality.
In certain countries (China comes to mind) the Left-Right dichotomy is rarely heard in common political discourse. Chinese politics are divided between Centralists vs. Decentralists. It's quite reasonable European politics will be divided among the same lines, due to the EU, and the questions and opinions such will arouse. In many ways, this is already the case: In the Netherlands, the SP and PVV, who are considered polar opposites in Left-Right dichotomy are actually quite similiar when viewed in terms of Unificationist vs. Eurosceptic sentiment, with the SP and PVV belonging to the latter. Another (Dutch) example, is the Dutch Republic, where - particularly in the 18th century - its politics were marked by the battle between the Staatsgezinden and Prinsgezinden. I won't bore you guys with further Dutch history, but the bottomline is that neither can be solidly classified by classic Left-Right dichotomies. In a way, American politics can't be classified in Left-Right dichotomies either: For example, the Republicans have consistently favored the interests of the Northeastern elite and industrialists since their very inception, with the Democrats consistently opposing them. For a long time, the Democrats would've been considered Right of the GOP in Left-Right dichotomy, due to its support from Southern Farmers, but now it (onstensibly) supports Leftist values. Yet the interests have remained the same, with the Northeastern Elites and Industrialists being represented by the Republicans and those who oppose the interests of the GOP's constituents, whether Southern farmers, Progressives, Minorities, etc. supporting the Democrats.
The Left-Right dichotomy is becoming increasingly irrelevant, if it wasn't already so. Besides, it is for most part a rethorical scheme as well, considering how Left and Right parties are converging policy-wise. But as said earlier, all things termed "left" are associated with rethoric about equality and progress, and all things termed "right" usually like to talk about order and tradition. Therefore, IMO, it is better to understand politics in terms of the interests of political parties' constituencies, and the policies these inevitably lead to, rather than arbritrary dichotomies, however clearly they may be demarcated if an effort is made to do so.
del62
Deity
Define Left :
A group who a large portion though not all of have an innate sense of their on moral superiority who feel there mission in life is to re-educate anyone who does not agree with them on any of their ideas. This portion of the lefts re-education plans can be done from the scale of whineing at people including on internet message boards through to the full specrtum of sending them to camps in very cold places to do forced labour.
A group who a large portion though not all of have an innate sense of their on moral superiority who feel there mission in life is to re-educate anyone who does not agree with them on any of their ideas. This portion of the lefts re-education plans can be done from the scale of whineing at people including on internet message boards through to the full specrtum of sending them to camps in very cold places to do forced labour.
I don't see how that differentiates "left" from "right" at all.
KaiserElectric
Total Freakin Besties
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2007
- Messages
- 3,461
To put it plainly, I describe Leftists as those who think the people need the government to make decisions for them, while Rightists are those who believe the people have the right to make their own decisions.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Like on abortion and marriage partner?
Ailedhoo
wonderer
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2012
- Messages
- 7,811
Your thinking of authoriterian and anarchist line? "Decide for them" was uphold by the right wing General Pinochet.
Left ecomonically can be gained through none govermental collectivism: the willing of the people could forge.
Right ecomonnically can be enforced through the goverment.
Corporations could be seen at times to make decisions for people.
If your linking to the "nanny state" then I must inform you that the purpose of welfare is to not take decisions away from people but give them a safety net.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
KaiserElectric
Total Freakin Besties
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2007
- Messages
- 3,461
Facism was a political fluke that I don't feel can be accurately described on a political scale. It shares qualities from both sides of the political spectrum (or at least my interpretation of it), thus it can't fit on either side.
You are confusing right-wing with Republican conservatism. True right-wing thinkers would support the rights of both. While the American Republican party is considered right-wing, in truth it is probably left of center, although less so than the democratic party.
Please see my response to Crezth above.
Although I would like to remind you that Nazi does stand for National Socialism.
Yes, lad, but politicians lie
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Well, for argument's sake, let's assume that your response to Crezth is valid. It isn't, even remotely, but let's just pretend it is.
You're still left with the second half of my post, a picture of the one Buenaventura Durruti, a leading Spanish anarchist during the interwar period and a prominent figure in the anarcho-syndicalist CNT-FAI. These guys were anarchists, which is to say that they advocated the abolition of the state and of governments as such, and they also identified themselves as being very much on the left, further left in fact that than the Communist Party. So did their contemporaries, left and right. So how do you square this?
I wouldn't bother, that old chestnut really doesn't have any weight around here.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Goddamn, there's a lot of moronic descriptions here. Allthough the thread serves the purpose of illuminating why political discussions here are so gawdawful.
Mise
isle of lucy
My definition from the other thread: I consider "Left" to mean "caring about disadvantaged people", while "Right" means something like "every man for himself".
And, to be clear, I'm really talking about what the role of government is, rather than the individual; an individual right-winger can clearly care about disadvantaged people, but doesn't believe that the government ought to do anything about it.
And, to be clear, I'm really talking about what the role of government is, rather than the individual; an individual right-winger can clearly care about disadvantaged people, but doesn't believe that the government ought to do anything about it.
