excuses racists use (particularly with dating)

[Timsup2nothin]

It's actually the declaration that matters. No matter what the percentages are, someone self declared of mixed race will have a much harder time passing on racist views to their children.

 

[Farm Boy]

It is unreasonable, admittedly. But I did sign on for the zero tolerance anti racism campaign a long time ago and don't intend to jump ship. Hopefully future generations will have the luxury of saying people like me are obsolete.

It's a misapplication. When you start condemning as equally bigoted people who prefer blondes, or brunettes, or "attractive" people of whatever combination? Then you have ground to stand on here for being indignant because some people just aren't into the combination of traits that somebody else's parents gave them genetically and socially. This application is just, yucky.

 

[Domen]

Timsup2nothin,

If racists discover they aren't "pure", they may not become less racist, but instead add a 2nd race to the list of their "top race". Or they may become even more racist as the 1930s Nazis who complained that Germans were already too mixed and mixing thus had to stop + purification was urgently needed.

 

[caketastydelish]

I'm not sure that's valid. Nearly all inclusive groups have prejudices against outsiders.
Think e.g. of the strict orthodox jews, as one example. Probably applies to some nutters in all the groups.

Maybe, but there's still a valid point to what I was saying, I have statistics to prove it.

http://wtfwhiteprivilege.tumblr.com/post/25653732956/some-data-okcupid-has-collected-about-race-and

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/comment-page-11/

edit: In particular, check this one out:

 

[IglooDame]

It's actually the declaration that matters. No matter what the percentages are, someone self declared of mixed race will have a much harder time passing on racist views to their children.

I'm the same way when I declare to the prospective female candidate that I only date females of C-cup size or larger. I suppose that I'll be passing on such shallow views to my offspring, too.

 

[Zelig]

I'm the same way when I declare to the prospective female candidate that I only date females of C-cup size or larger. I suppose that I'll be passing on such shallow views to my offspring, too.

Unless all your offspring are females of C-cup size or larger, then you'll have no problems whatsoever.

 

[BvBPL]

Some of the girls I'd message on dating sites, when they happened to be of a different race (ESPECIALLY if they're white) would send me a quick reply saying (sorry, I'm don't date outside my race. I'm not racist, it's just the way I was raised)... and they use that as an actual excuse.

It isn't an excuse, it is an explanation.

An excuse is used when you did something wrong as a means to excuse your poor behavior.

They didn't do anything wrong. They don't want to date half-Persian guys. There's nothing wrong with that.

Far better they be up front with you and say they don't want to date half-Persian guys then make up some other excuse or try to date someone they don't want to.

 

[uppi]

edit: In particular, check this one out:

Hmm...using racist data to combat racism. I wonder whether that will ever work out.

 

[Traitorfish]

It isn't an excuse, it is an explanation.

An excuse is used when you did something wrong as a means to excuse your poor behavior.

They didn't do anything wrong. They don't want to date half-Persian guys. There's nothing wrong with that.

No, racism is wrong. That's a pretty universal public norm, nowadays, even if not everybody has internalised it. These people are transgressing against public norms, whether for the sake of personal preference or some set of in-group norms, and they clearly know it or they wouldn't be coming up with all this "I'm just old-fashioned" stuff, they'd just say it.

Incidentally, it would be interesting to know if the "old-fashioned" excuse (as opposed to the prejudice itself) is more prevalent among men or women. Intuitively I'd say women, because men are more often un-self-aware enough to just blurt out their dumb prejudices without qualification- like I did just there, for example- but I could be wrong.

Hmm...using racist data to combat racism. I wonder whether that will ever work out.

"Racist data"?

Maybe, but there's still a valid point to what I was saying, I have statistics to prove it.

http://wtfwhiteprivilege.tumblr.com/post/25653732956/some-data-okcupid-has-collected-about-race-and

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/comment-page-11/

edit: In particular, check this one out:

Interesting, but I wonder how it would look if it was "wouldn't date X" rather than "only date Y". Maybe I've been on the internet too long, but it seems like there are a lot of of (particularly white) men out there who will fetish Asian women but would never consider dating a black woman, and I'm not sure how those sorts of attitudes would impact on the numbers. Again, speculating wildly, I'd tend to assume that women are more... "even-handed" in their prejudices.

 

[LucyDuke]

The amount of indignance going on here is pretty amusing:

Of course women are free to pick amongst potential suitors on any criteria they please, social status, career, wealth, age, fitness, straight nose, hair color, religion, living arrangements, hobbies, whatever! But the huge bag of socialization-structures that frequently comes with self-identified ethnicity? OMG THE WITCHES!

upvote for lol

 

[BvBPL]

No, racism is wrong. That's a pretty universal public norm, nowadays, even if not everybody has internalised it.

Not wanting to date outside your race isn't wrong and is not blameworthy.

 

[Traitorfish]

Not wanting to date outside your race isn't wrong and is not blameworthy.

Yes it is and yes it is.

Ethnic group or culture, that might be a different thing. I wouldn't blame a Jew for wanting to date a Jew or a Native American for wanting to date a Native American. That stuff's complicated, there's a lot of stuff in there about tradition and experience that I wouldn't want to generalise about.

But race? A big empty category like that? There's no good or defensible reason to invest yourself in that crap.

 

[The_J]

Both is blameworthy (IMHO).
Because you say that you let some construct, which is not related to love, dominate your love.
It would mean that you could find the perfect other one, who is nice, charming, sexually attractive, compatible in every possible way, and then you find out that he/she was not born at the right place or by the right parents and you say "sorry, that's a total dealbreaker". It shows that you don't value the person enough.

I already thought if I'm not maybe a racist, because I also say that I don't find black (or eastern asian/southeastern asian) women attractive.
But that's about the attraction. If I'd find one attractive, I'd definitely try to date her.
That's the other way around.

EDIT: It's different if it's about the general compatibilty.
If a potential partner would say "btw, I'm am member of the Klan", then your reaction shouldn't be "I don't date members of the Klan", but rather about the implications, which this has on the general view on life, society, and so on.
mmhh....okay....maybe religion is really complicated in that case, because that can influence your values a lot. Race can't.

As an aside, I've long wondered if there could be a biological component to being attracted to people of other races. Genetic diversity is healthier, if I remember my biology, and the baby-making that lies at the root of (some of) our sexual urges might recognize the benefit of mating with someone who has a completely different genetic makeup. (Total flight of fancy hypothesizing on my part, I ain't read no studies er nuthin'.)

One of my friends recently theorized that this is why the Inuit offer their wifes to visitors, to increase genetic diversity ^^.

Makes somehow sense though. But maybe you also need to be able to recognize what makes someone compatible in that way, and if it's too far away, then your senses fail.
But that's also only random thoughts.

Maybe, but there's still a valid point to what I was saying, I have statistics to prove it.
[...]

Ah, thanks, interesting.

 

[Narz]

But race? A big empty category like that? There's no good or defensible reason to invest yourself in that crap.

Ridiculous. People can screw whoever they want. What are you gonna do? Force people to date a quote of exotic races before they can date their own?

People may have stupid reasons for only wanting to date within their race but its certainly their right.

Next you'll say its wrong to not want to date ugly people.

 

[Narz]

One of my friends recently theorized that this is why the Inuit offer their wifes to visitors, to increase genetic diversity ^^.

Alaska was never on my short list of places to go but maybe its worth a visit...

Then again, the Inuit body type doesn't really get me going... /rasism!1!! /sizeism!!1 #allwomenaren'tbeautiful

 

[jackelgull]

Ridiculous. People can screw whoever they want. What are you gonna do? Force people to date a quote of exotic races before they can date their own?

People may have stupid reasons for only wanting to date within their race but its certainly their right.

Next you'll say its wrong to not want to date ugly people.

I think what TF is saying is that people shouldn't have race as a reason for not wanting to date people, not that they don't have the right to. I mean, personal relationships shouldn't be subject to the politics of race.

 

[Domen]

Apparently people in Europe developed a very strong fetish for white skin some 5000 years ago, which has persisted since then:

http://www.pnas.org/content/111/13/4832.full

Direct evidence for positive selection of skin, hair, and eye pigmentation in Europeans during the last 5,000 y

Here we present direct estimates of selection acting on functional alleles in three key genes known to be involved in human pigmentation pathways—HERC2, SLC45A2, and TYR—using allele frequency estimates from Eneolithic, Bronze Age, and modern European samples and forward simulations. Neutrality was overwhelmingly rejected for all alleles studied, with point estimates of selection ranging from around 2-10% per generation. Our results provide direct evidence that strong selection favoring lighter skin, hair, and eye pigmentation has been operating in European populations over the last 5,000 y

When surrounded by European women, if you are white you have apparently a 2% up to 10% better chance of passing on your genes.

Well... maybe in other continents they have fetishes for other things. Maybe not related to colour but to other things.

 

[Narz]

That explains the statistics.

 

[Lay_Lay]

It's ok to say "certain facial features are more beautiful to me than others."
And it's usually ok to admit that "certain facial features are generally more commonly found in some ethnic groups than in others."
But the moment you put those two together, the PC police get all crazy.
"Certain ethnicities are, in general, more beautiful to me than others."
People don't like this. They want you to think big black and bald is beautiful.
They want to change our perception of beauty! haha

A person won't tell you that "half Persians are kinda gross to me." That's just mean. "I don't date outside my race" is the only thing they could think of to say.

 

[Commodore]

First, this is one of those uncomfortable, awkward topic threads that no one wants to think about, although I don't think the problem will go away on its own.

Some of the girls I'd message on dating sites, when they happened to be of a different race (ESPECIALLY if they're white) would send me a quick reply saying (sorry, I'm don't date outside my race. I'm not racist, it's just the way I was raised)... and they use that as an actual excuse.

I of course don't reply back to them because it's impossible to argue and nothing to win. On the other hand there seems to be a *lot* of people that legitimately believe refusing to date outside your race because you were "raised" that way somehow excuses you from being racist yourself.

A black woman my age whom I'm internet friends with said she's tried to date some white guys and when they brought her home, the guy's parents would always be horrified with this same "we're not racist but we're just old fashioned" nonsense.

I'm a lot less sensitive to what counts as "racist" than a lot of the posters (particularly left wing ones) are. On the other hand if specifically refusing to date someone just because they're the "wrong race" then perhaps nothing is racist at all, the line has to be drawn somewhere.

My experience of this forum is that most of the people here are white guys are willing to date minority girls, so a lot this criticism wouldn't apply to most of you. And even those of you that would honestly refuse to date outside your race would never openly admit it.

The real question is how can we come up with an effective way of calling these people out whenever they casually use the "not racist, I was just raised that way" line without sounding snarky like a jerk, that way you can actually say it and they may actually listen and think about it.

Just because someone doesn't want to date someone else because of their race/ethnicity doesn't make them a racist, it simply means they aren't romantically attracted to people outside their race.

Trying to find a way to "call them out" as a racist for not dating you because they are not attracted to people of your race/ethnicity is a pretty low-blow on your part and reeks of you just trying to lash out at them for not dating you.

I also doubt a lot of those girls are being honest with you about not wanting to date outside their race. There is probably something else about you they don't like but don't want to tell you, so they just use your race as the excuse for rejecting you. I know that's what I used to do before I got married if there was a girl I wasn't attracted to that was trying to get my attention. If, for example, they had a not-so-attractive face, annoying personality, etc. I wouldn't say "hey, leave me alone because you have an ugly face." Instead I would come up with a lie so I could turn them down without hurting their self-esteem.