Is not wanting to date trans individuals transphobic?

[Evie]

Altering your body by surgical procedure so you better fit your mental image of what you should look like is hardly a novel thought. Breast implants, rhinoplasties (nasial restructuration), etc, etc. In more "needful" examples, facial reconstruction for people who suffered horrific injuries is also a thing. They don't need it to survive, but they need it to accept their bodies (and be accepted). In an even more commonplace way, since we're on the topic of drilling holes, there's nothing natural about drilling a hole in your nose/ear/nipple/lip/other places so you can insert various bits of metal in the hole. Yet it's a common cosmetic decision the world over. People who get breast implants, or skin grafts, or body piercing may be many things, but insane is rarely ever used to describe them.

I understand that, for someone who is a male, and who feels male, "but they're your balls!" is the normal response at this point. I get it. Balls are...a big deal in the male experience. But that's just it - male experience. I'm not male (neither is Emzie, but I can't speak for her beyond that). To me, balls are...a bit of flesh and skin dangling between my legs. I don't hate them ; they're not part of my identity. I'm in no big hurry to surgerize them away because it's a complicated, difficult procedure, but if it's the price to pay to be accepted...it may be worth be paying.

 

[bernie14]

Thinking about waking up and being the opposite sex.....i assume that after some time of "self exploration" (if i don't just go completely insane).....darn, who knows? Could i actually like it? Would i still be attracted to females? Dem are some hard questions.....

EDIT: also, completely different to be born "different" (to what you believe yourself to be) and not be able to do anything about it....

 

[Commodore]

I mean, that is pretty racist, though.

No, it's not. It just means you don't find <insert skin color> to be sexually attractive. Doesn't mean you actually hate people of that skin color though.

 

[Jabarto]

No, it's not. It just means you don't find <insert skin color> to be sexually attractive. Doesn't mean you actually hate people of that skin color though.

In theory, yes. In practice:

I'm just not prepared to believe this is a judgement disconnected from their attitude towards black people in general.

These things don't exist in a vacuum, society has a big influence on what its members find beautiful, and we live in a society that marginalizes pretty much anyone who isn't white.

 

[cardgame]

I think not finding black people attractive is by far more a matter of systemic racism than individual racism, though. Like you said, society and culture influences what we find attractive.

>No, it's not. It just means you don't find <insert skin color> to be sexually attractive. Doesn't mean you actually hate people of that skin color though.

I'll go back and say this is pretty damned easy to come across as a genuine racist even if you aren't. "No blacks! Not attractive! Not ever!" is a generalization of a seven year old, given the varieties of people within that subset. I mean, here's a great example of a classically conventionally attractive woman:

Now, there's nothing here to dislike except skin tone. I can see the argument, because there are, in fact, physical differences between black women and white women, notably in facial structure. However, that doesn't really hold up in the example image here.

 

[Zelig]

I mean, own your towering personal defects, y'know?

I agree, but I'd apply that to dating trans individuals as well.

It's much easier to view some transphobic attitudes as generally socially acceptable rather than trying to contort "transphobic" to only apply to socially unacceptable attitudes.

I understand that, for someone who is a male, and who feels male, "but they're your balls!" is the normal response at this point. I get it. Balls are...a big deal in the male experience. But that's just it - male experience. I'm not male (neither is Emzie, but I can't speak for her beyond that). To me, balls are...a bit of flesh and skin dangling between my legs. I don't hate them ; they're not part of my identity.

Are they? By all accounts I'm a pretty middle of the spectrum straight cis male, but I'd trade up for a genderless superior robot body in a (final) heartbeat if I had the option.

 

[Evie]

That's always been my understanding, but I'm obviously not the right person to speak with authority on topics of what it's like to be male.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I think not finding black people attractive is by far more a matter of systemic racism than individual racism, though. Like you said, society and culture influences what we find attractive.



I'll go back and say this is pretty damned easy to come across as a genuine racist even if you aren't. "No blacks! Not attractive! Not ever!" is a generalization of a seven year old, given the varieties of people within that subset. I mean, here's a great example of a classically conventionally attractive woman:

Now, there's nothing here to dislike except skin tone. I can see the argument, because there are, in fact, physical differences between black women and white women, notably in facial structure. However, that doesn't really hold up in the example image here.

She's gorgeous. Who cares what color she is?

I'll go out on a limb here and say that I don't find a lot of African American or Asian women attractive, but it is primarily due to some common facial features in women of those ethnic backgrounds that don't appeal to me. It's not a racial thing for me. I just simply don't find some of them physically attractive and wouldn't date them. I'm not going to date a white woman who doesn't appeal to me either. I would have no issue with dating either an African American or Asian woman if I found her attractive, so those of you about to label me a racist - where's the justification in that?

 

[Kozmos]

In the hallowed words of my hill dwelling redneck brethren: a hole is a hole, a point is a point. (point meaning as in tracking scores)

 

[Narz]

I mean, that is pretty racist, though.

Everyone has racial preferenes. It's not racist to prefer certain body/facial features.

Not wanting to date trans people is not transphobic because you don't get to pick what kind of junk you want to mush up against your own junk.

All natural puss. I don't like fake boobs either.

That's really not the same thing as not wanting to mush junk that's a different colour

I am not usually super into black girls (though I've made a few exceptions), nothing to do with the color, just the facial features mostly. I like Asians and dont care for blondes/redheads. It's probably 50% organic and 50% conditioning and would be 100% stupid for me to judge myself for my sexual preferences, I already judge myself enough for other stupid s***.

 

[cardgame]

All natural puss. I don't like fake boobs either.

If a gynecologist can't tell the difference, what does it matter to you?

 

[Akka]

The thought control and bigotry in this thread is pretty strong

Preferences are preferences. You don't get to decide them, you don't have to change them, and they don't mean you somehow are X-phobic inside. It's incredible to see people working so hard to find reason to look down on others because said others have their sexual preferences - especially hypocrital considering they tend to be the loudest defenders of people with, precisely, different sexual preferences. Double standards and so on.

I am disgusted by the idea of dating a man. Not because I'm a misandrist or homophobic, simply because I'm straight and I'm born like that - physical intimacy with a man disgust me. Woah, breaking news, people are entitled (and have no choice anyway) about their sexuality !
I am disgusted by the idea of dating a trans. Not because I wish ill on the person, not even due to reasoning (about children or something), simply because to my mind it's still a man somewhere. And that's my effing right, my tastes and my perceptions are neither controlables nor up to discussion, and even less up to judgements. Go plow someone your sexual orientation tells you is disgusting if you wish to virtue signal your open-mindedness, lead by example, and leave people and their own preferences alone.
I also have some kind of faces and colours and tones and whatever I find attractive or desirable, other I don't. If you are one of these cretins obsessed by finding "racism" everyone, then go see a psychiatrist to cure you from it instead of trying to do your thought control on everyone.

Because in the end, just think back about what a bigot is, you might notice it's just the definition of yourself : someone who pass judgement on others because they have different opinions (and in this case, it's not even "opinions", it's "taste"). Congrats, you're exactly what you accuse others of.

If a gynecologist can't tell the difference, what does it matter to you?

I don't like "fake". I wasn't aware my preferences were up to discussion with a gynecologist which would explain me why I'm wrong and actually do like "fake". Thanks for enlightening me on what I actually like, because you obviously know it better than I.

She's gorgeous. Who cares what color she is?

Because colour are also part of preferences ?
I mean, I have a very strong preference for clear eyes (blue/grey/green). Yet it's just a colour. Does that mean I'm brown eyeist ?
(for the record I *have* brown eyes myself)

I mean, that is pretty racist, though.

Not wanting to date trans people is not transphobic because you don't get to pick what kind of junk you want to mush up against your own junk.

That's really not the same thing as not wanting to mush junk that's a different colour.

How so ?
I mean, I don't remember that I ever decided what I found attractive or not. How exactly is one being "just what you prefer" and the other being "YOU'RE RASIST !!!111§!" ? Except the need for posturing on the Internet "loooook how open-minded I aaaam" I mean (because there is nothing showing the open-mindedness of someone, than him calling others bigots because they have different preferences than himself... or not ?).

 

[Zack]

I am disgusted by the idea of dating a man. Not because I'm a misandrist or homophobic, simply because I'm straight and I'm born like that - physical intimacy with a man disgust me.

Disgust is a pretty strong word. I'm straight and i think it's kind of bizarre to be disgusted by the very concept of gay activity.

 

[cardgame]

I don't like "fake". I wasn't aware my preferences were up to discussion with a gynecologist which would explain me why I'm wrong and actually do like "fake". Thanks for enlightening me on what I actually like, because you obviously know it better than I.

If you didn't know, you wouldn't be able to tell, and hence wouldn't care.

This is nothing but posturing.

 

[Traitorfish]

Everyone has racial preferenes. It's not racist to prefer certain body/facial features.

Well, maybe, but as I said, what tips it from "unfortunate" to "just racist" is being able to frame your preferences in explicitly racial terms and feeling comfortable in doing so.

No, it's not. It just means you don't find <insert skin color> to be sexually attractive. Doesn't mean you actually hate people of that skin color though.

I mean, I don't remember that I ever decided what I found attractive or not. How exactly is one being "just what you prefer" and the other being "YOU'RE RASIST !!!111§!" ? Except the need for posturing on the Internet "loooook how open-minded I aaaam" I mean (because there is nothing showing the open-mindedness of someone, than him calling others bigots because they have different preferences than himself... or not ?).

Raw nerves a-plenty in this thread.

 

[Commodore]

Disgust is a pretty strong word. I'm straight and i think it's kind of bizarre to be disgusted by the very concept of gay activity.

See, this why there can't be any real dialog on topics like this. You are making a pretty big assumption with this post. Akka didn't say he was disgusted by the concept of gay activity, that's just you putting words in his mouth in an attempt to paint him as the monster so you don't have to actually put in the effort to engage him in meaningful dialog.

What Akka was saying he is disgusted by the idea of himself engaging in gay activity. That is a big difference from what you were twisting his words to mean.

Raw nerves a-plenty in this thread.

Well yeah. When you sit there and literally call everything racist or sexist it gets a little annoying. Especially since I know you are smart enough to know that saying someone's sexual preferences are racist is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Traitorfish]

Well yeah. When you sit there and literally call everything racist or sexist it gets a little annoying. Especially since I know you are smart enough to know that saying someone's sexual preferences are racist is absolutely ridiculous.

So, for about the, what, seventh time in this thread?

It's not racist to prefer characteristics that are associated with certain racial backgrounds. It's kind of unfortunate, and it's not hard for it to get pretty creepy, but that's sexuality for you. Humanity is the faulty prototype of itself. Where it gets problematic, if you'll excuse the ess-jay-dub-ism, is framing this in explicitly racial terms, in framing a preference for Caucasian bone-structures as "I don't like black people". That step, and being comfortable with that step, is definitionally racist.

 

[Akka]

Disgust is a pretty strong word. I'm straight and i think it's kind of bizarre to be disgusted by the very concept of gay activity.

Well, that's the subject of the thread : we all have different preferences and perception. It's not surprising that people have different degrees about it.
As for me, I am disgusted by the idea of physical intimacy with a man. I mean, I don't care if two guys have a go at it, but the idea of being included makes my skin crawl (and I definitely feels very uncomfortable if I watch).
I can find a man handsome, but when it crosses into intimacy territory, it grosses me out.

If you didn't know, you wouldn't be able to tell, and hence wouldn't care.

This is nothing but posturing.

That's a completely stupid argument. Obviously I can't have opinion about an information I don't have. Duh. I also can't be mad that someone stole my money until I realize someone did it.
Anymore idiotic reasoning to share ? Like "if you're chatting with someone over the Net they can be either man or woman and you can't know, so gender has no bearing on how you relate with people" ?

Raw nerves a-plenty in this thread.

Yep. I can't bear hypocrisy so the double-standards about sexual preferences is really irking me out, and the systematic obsession about racism and trying to find racism in everything is really making me want to punch people.

It's not racist to prefer characteristics that are associated with certain racial backgrounds. It's kind of unfortunate, and it's not hard for it to get pretty creepy, but that's sexuality for you. Humanity is the faulty prototype of itself. Where it gets problematic, if you'll excuse the ess-jay-dub-ism, is framing this in explicitly racial terms, in framing a preference for Caucasian bone-structures as "I don't like black people". That step, and being comfortable with that step, is definitionally racist.

No it's not, it's just a shortcut. It's easier to say "I like white girls" than to say "I prefer the kind of skin colour, hair and general bone structure that are more prevalent in Caucasian background". When one isn't specifically looking for a pretext to throw a "racist" accusation, the former is perfectly understandable by everyone.
And there is nothing "faulty" about having different preferences.

Seriously, how can people can celebrate "diversity" and claim to fight against "bigots who judge people on their sexual preferences", and in the same breath jump on "people having different preferences is a defect of humanity" and "anyone who have preferences is a racist" ? Are you guys not even reading what you write, or have you been somehow brainwashing into mantra drones ?

 

[Mustakrakish]

No, it is NOT transphobic to not want to date one. No, it is not racist to not want to date someone of particular background. Especially if that particular background is either A: different looking than your average "type" (you prefer asian looking and she/he is northern european looking or black and wise versa) and/or B: has a different view/habits/etc/etc from your "type" (completely different culture and upbringing). It is sexual preference FFS. If I prefer darker brunettes of southern European/Middle East/Caucasus region and not particularly excited by nordic blonds, that's my goddamn preference. Same if wise versa.

Now if you don't want to interact with people in general or don't see yourself befriending one based on those preferences, that is where I'll say "dat racist".

It's really sad and annoying that this things are still so unclear to some people.

 

[Arakhor]

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