New Conquest - Conquistadors (Mexico, Peru and the Search for Eldorado)

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Supa
Err. Ecology is avalaible and researched in Ancient Times. o_O

Yeah...that shouldn't have any consequences. I needed to use a tech which allowed sacrifice. It's flavored, and can't be traded. Since you can only play as the Spanish, this won't actually be noticed if you only play the game. This is a reason that comments will be more useful if the come from a played game rather than a glance at the BIQ file.

 

[Supa]

Actually, I've just began a game and I saw it when I looked back in the previous techs

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Supa
Actually, I've just began a game and I saw it when I looked back in the previous techs

COngrats...you're the first one I was becoming cynical and pessimistic,..please forgive me!

 

[Pawel]

So maybe I'm the second. I have not had time to really play beyond the first turn yet, but one thing that struck me from the very beginning was that it looked as if you just had opened the old bix-file in the editor and saved it as a biq. If you only would have imported the properties you actually changed, you would get the Conquests stuff that was not in the original file...
Another very minor point is that you could reduce the size of your scenario considerably by, e.g., linking to unit sound files that come with Civ3 or Conquests instead of re-distributing them. I made the same remark in the Italy 1400 scenario that I tried just before yours. I will try to play yours a little bit more, though, and perhaps I will have something more interesting to say then.

 

[Pangur Bán]

yeah, I did a little more than simply open and save. For instance, all the unit were done again. In the BIX file, I was using the Germans, the Koreans, the Iroquois and the Mongols (I thinK?) for the civs. I'm now using the the Maya and Incas.

Actually, something funny...there is a Charles V leaderhead included in the game and I didn't use it...I only discovered it afterwards

I'll explore your point about sounds when I come back in January, but I think at least the sound for the monk is unique. I'd be great to get it all into a less-than-3MB-file

Enjoy the game

All constructively intentioned feedback is appreciated

(PS: I really need, more than anything, to know how hard it is. That's the one area where I really am a slave to the judgment of others )

 

[Pawel]

I am sure you did much more than just open and save. My point was only that the order in which things are done is important. If you open an old file it re-sets all settings to those of PTW - even when you really just wanted to have current default ones. In order to get the new stuff, a better way is to make a biq from the bix, and then import only the things you really need and don't want to do over again in the new file. I don't think it matters very much for you scenario, though. It looks very nice as it is. I doubt that I will have the time to play it through before x-mas, but if I do, I promise to tell you how hard it was.

 

[Pangur Bán]

I don't think I imported more than the map and the cities. But really, I'm rather vague on it now. Well, it seems to be OK, but if there are problems, then fixing them won't be an impossible task

I won't be able to do anything until January either...so no worries there

 

[Pawel]

One giveaway is the start screen, since C3C adds more difficulty levels. Then you have some new techs and minor stuff that may not be in, but this is really not important in your scenario! I just asked out of curiosity. Maybe I will have something more interesting to say by the time you return...

 

[Pangur Bán]

OK - back! Can anyone comment on the difficulty?

 

[Johann MacLeod]

it was a fun scenario, i enjoyed it greatly

 

[Pangur Bán]

Frigg...didn't see this post.

Was it the Conquests version you played?

If so, do you have any comments on the difficulty? The settings? How long did it take you to complete the game?

Any recommendations? Any bugs?

All informed comments, good or bad, are greatly appreciated.

 

[LouLong]

Had a game today. Not finished yet (Cuzco remains for the Incas, I haven't touched the Aztec cities althouhg we raged a bloody war, and El Dorado has proved difficult to capture so I am awaiting reinforcements) but quite interesting and original.

I just don't understand why you did not make the locked alliances you speak of in your readme (easy to do in C3C), why you don't use the FoW so that there is a clear and immediate connection between the various Spanish harbors ?

Or am I playing a wrong version (it is a biq that is for sure). Pentagone's name (since you provide armies it can be built fairly quickly) should be changed. A few things like that. + you got lots of nice units by Kinboat for the Indians.

So easy (I believe) improvments.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Good Loulong. I've never dared experiement with Fog of War, and I'd never changed any building names till I found out recently it doesn't crash the game

I was recently contemplating doing an update for this, to use some of the mythical Units for Eldorado and to fix the Unconquestsness that the Conquests version might have.

Great to hear that it plays well though!

 

[LouLong]

Finished July 1528.

The Aztecs were the toughest. The Incas proved very stupid since after taking all their town (capture and blackmail for peace on Macchu Picchu) they agreed to have ROP that I raped after he moved nearly all of his troops to fight the barbarians. Tried my luck with a conquistador army and won (I had another turn without any direct threat anyway !).

Some more remarks. Of course IMHO

Jungle could be made more dangerous (disease effects can be adjusted in the editor) and should be settling place for cities.

Warriors (by capture, they should not be built by Spaniards at the beginning) should not upgrade to Medieval Infantry. Maybe some kind of mercenary/subjugated Indians ?
You could add some invisible (fortify)/ visible (attack) barbarian units such as wild animals in the jungle. Stepping on them would trigger fights, showing both the dangers of the jungle (mostly) and the lack of knowledge of Conquistadores.
Time length might be a bit too long --> no sense of real hurry.
The resources on islands in the Pacific look a bit like they force to settle there, and they don't really fit in the spirit of the map.
And since you usually ask about it, my El Dorado was in Central/Southern Brazil.

With some more polishing (wonder, wonder names, pedias, etc...) I think it could be a neat scenario to send to Firaxis because it is quite special.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by LouLong


Jungle could be made more dangerous (disease effects can be adjusted in the editor) and should be settling place for cities.

Ok...noted!

Originally posted by LouLong
Finished July 1528.


Warriors (by capture, they should not be built by Spaniards at the beginning) should not upgrade to Medieval Infantry. Maybe some kind of mercenary/subjugated Indians ?

Yeah.....my thinking was along the lines of:

The Empire can recruit Indians hostile to Mexico....it cpuld do that from the beginning, so the best way to represent that was by building them...

If you have the money, you can upgrade them to medieval infantry to represent the Spaniards giving them better equipment.

I will probably reconsider this.

Originally posted by LouLong

You could add some invisible (fortify)/ visible (attack) barbarian units such as wild animals in the jungle. Stepping on them would trigger fights, showing both the dangers of the jungle (mostly) and the lack of knowledge of Conquistadores.

Great idea

Great idea indeed, lthough I should probably add these units to the forces of Barbaria in the editor, rather than making them default barbarian units (which would mean they'd turn up in Yucatan and the Caribbean)

Originally posted by LouLong
Finished July 1528.

Time length might be a bit too long --> no sense of real hurry.
.

You actually finished quite late in the scenario - turn wise. Turns become much larger after about 1531. Were you aware of this? Do you still think time-length is too long?

Originally posted by LouLong
.
The resources on islands in the Pacific look a bit like they force to settle there, and they don't really fit in the spirit of the map.
.

Those locations are possible Starting Locations for Eldorado. Eldorado has to be founded and be flourishing by the time you find it, so they needed some advantages.

Originally posted by LouLong
And since you usually ask about it, my El Dorado was in Central/Southern Brazil.

It usually turns up there for some reason. I played a few test-games with a 1000 moves, virtually invicible Cossack and a 1000 moves ship, and 4 times out of 5 it turned up in Amazonia. Once it turned up in the Pacific, but never in the Falklands.

Originally posted by LouLong
With some more polishing (wonder, wonder names, pedias, etc...) I think it could be a neat scenario to send to Firaxis because it is quite special.

Thanks Loulong.

Civilopedias have never been a priority for me, because I never read them. I have realised though, since making this scenario, that others do read them and are disappointed when they don't see civilopedia entries. If I release a new version when I return from California in a few weeks - which I probably will since I can now say I have had proper feedback - I will try to cover all the civilopedia entries and rename the wonders. I don't think I'll add wonder graphics, as I have little experience of doing this.


....and while we''re at it, can you think of any wonder names for the various Mesoamerican and Andean cities in the scenario?

 

[LouLong]

First a correction. In my former post one should have read : jungles should NOT be settling places for cities (still IMHO).

About wild "barbarian" animal units : yes, I think that means you should add them by hand. Another idea is to actually limit their movement in some areas (such as jungles).

El Dorado was far from thriving when I discovered it.
Well, of course, I discovered it early and I raged an attrition war with 1/2 conquistadors when I realized how many archers it got. But it was in mere jungle as well, which is NOT the best area for growth
Maybe you could add the 7 cities of Cebola as treasure units (invisible except for conquistadors ?) that must be brought back to Canaries. Maybe it would be too similar to Conquest : Age of Discovery but I think it would force to go for more scouting and ships would have a meaningful return trip. Besides it would add something else than mere destroying (not because destroying is bad but because sometimes you get bored waiting for reinforcements ).

About time length : no, I did not realize. I just played slowly because I thought I had the time. And even with that I hardly built any city (2 South of Panama actually).

I don't think you could have made Medieval Infantry out of Indians and I think capturing them with Conquistadors provide high enough a number of them but that is your scenario...

About pedias : well, I was not trying to force you or anything. It is just for scenarios it might be useful for pedias give precious informations about abilities.

About wonders : I am definitely no specialist of the area. But I presume you can use many wonders from Meso-America and Age of Discovery conquests. Sun Temple, Moon Temple, ...


Ah yes, BTW, one "bad" critic : I think it is nice you tried to represent the return of the white god (ie Hannibal
). Your way might be the only way to represent it or the best way but it is personal I just don't like it.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by LouLong
First a correction. In my former post one should have read : jungles should NOT be settling places for cities (still IMHO).
.

Yeah. I think I'll put a resource with a super amount of food in the starting locations....or close.

Originally posted by LouLong
El Dorado was far from thriving when I discovered it.
Well, of course, I discovered it early and I raged an attrition war with 1/2 conquistadors when I realized how many archers it got. But it was in mere jungle as well, which is NOT the best area for growth

That's cheating

Originally posted by LouLong
Maybe you could add the 7 cities of Cebola as treasure units (invisible except for conquistadors ?) that must be brought back to Canaries. Maybe it would be too similar to Conquest : Age of Discovery but I think it would force to go for more scouting and ships would have a meaningful return trip. Besides it would add something else than mere destroying (not because destroying is bad but because sometimes you get bored waiting for reinforcements ).

Maybe I should play the Age of Discovery conquest then...

Originally posted by LouLong
About time length : no, I did not realize. I just played slowly because I thought I had the time. And even with that I hardly built any city (2 South of Panama actually).
.

Alright...I'll reduce the time then...but I'd take in to consideration that 7 cities thing first.

Originally posted by LouLong

I don't think you could have made Medieval Infantry out of Indians and I think capturing them with Conquistadors provide high enough a number of them but that is your scenario...

OK...I'll have to be careful though. I don't want to make the scenario too difficult.

Originally posted by LouLong
About pedias : well, I was not trying to force you or anything.

No no, you obviously weren't. I've kinda changed my mind on the topic though, because scenrios without pedia entries, or with pedia entries about the wrong thing seem to give some people an impression of amateurishness...and of course, the scenario is very amateurish, but I think I should try as best as pos not to give that impression. It also helps people follow the scenario dynamics in-game, without the necessity of printing off the readme.

Originally posted by LouLong


About wonders : I am definitely no specialist of the area. But I presume you can use many wonders from Meso-America and Age of Discovery conquests. Sun Temple, Moon Temple, ...

I'm sure I won't have too many problems getting wonder names if I put my mind to it.

Originally posted by LouLong

Ah yes, BTW, one "bad" critic : I think it is nice you tried to represent the return of the white god (ie Hannibal
). Your way might be the only way to represent it or the best way but it is personal I just don't like it.

Fair enough.

 

[Pangur Bán]

As a sidenote....I just noticed a typo:

The Noun for the Eldorado civ says "Golden Me of Eldorado"

 

[LouLong]

Originally posted by calgacus
As a sidenote....I just noticed a typo:

The Noun for the Eldorado civ says "Golden Me of Eldorado"

Yep I had seen it but forgot about it.

About cheating, you got me wrong. I just established an embassy, which is perfectly legal, isn't it ?

 

[Dease]

Hey,

I just started the scenario, about an hour through i decided to check the civiopedia about the governments, then conquests crashed. Are you aware of this? is it the scenario or is it my comp?
BTW this is one of the best scenarios I've ever played , (after an hour of play) , manageable size (no waits) and not too difficult, although Aztecs proved to be a challenge.