New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[thomas.berubeg]

I am seriously considering allowing barbarian peoples "on the cusp," of civilization to be playable. However, the only two groups that fit this description are goblins and lizardmen. By their very nature giants (maybe less so) and dragons would be unplayable within the context of the NES as a polity/culture exercise. That said, at the beginning, in order to address Patchy's comment, barbarians would serve the purpose of providing players with goals to achieve. What I mean by this is that unless players act in a very not-smart way barbarians will rarely be strong enough to level a player culture to the ground. Instead they will provide opportunities for expansion or, in the right circumstances, a roadblock to the same.

What about allowing the creation of other "Barbaric" races? Things like Beastmen of sorts (Gnolls, Beornites, Khajit, etc.)

 

[mrrandomplayer]

3 seems to have won. I will have a map out by tomorrow.

 

[Lord of Elves]

What about allowing the creation of other "Barbaric" races? Things like Beastmen of sorts (Gnolls, Beornites, Khajit, etc.)

This is something else worth discussing. In theory I'd like to be able to stick to traditional "high fantasy" races, but only to serve my self-aggrandizing view of the NES as an attempt at a reconstruction of high fantasy tropes. More prosaically, if people have sufficient interest for the introduction of cat people and et al in a way that doesn't frustrate the established dynamics of the NES then I am all for it.

 

[Arrow Gamer]

The map is... Well, not my favorite part.

For barbarians, I feel like goblins and perhaps a few others should be playable (giants, for example), but dragons seem a bit much.

Edit: Didn't see LoE's respond about dragons. Disregard that comment.

Edit2: Magic is essential to high fantasy, even if in a limited sense. I'd look to A Song of Ice and Fire for the amount of magic, I suppose.

 

[Lord_Herobrine]

The map in my opinion could use a rework... and also it would be better if it showed mountains and maybe some biomes as well.

 

[Golden1Knight]

Dragons in the wrong hands would cause a lot of headaches, and I do not think giants could form a significant force.
However, despite being closer to extinction, the dragons may still be able to accomplish great things. The snake bites stronger when near death. A large migration of Dragons could be catastrophic for any civilization.

On the map, I think it's excellent, but I think it covers a much larger area than Europe.

About the barbarians, I think playing as they should be more challenging, but at a point where they can still pose a threat to the more advanced cultures.

 

[Terrance888]

Barbarians really should depend on personalities. So you need to consider your update time frame as well.

Dragons and Giants should be NPC'd, but an individual play as one dragon or one giant could be fun, again, depending on scale. You could even open up an NPC giant or dragon after it gets "in play".

 

[Gem Hound]

I would definitely join this NES as a Dwarven civilization.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Reaving Orcish Water Nation

 

[Lord_Herobrine]

I'm thinking Dwarven as well haha.

 

[Lord of Elves]

It should be clarified that the map is still a work in progress. While I agree that playing as barbarians would probably be more difficult -- or at least, different from -- playing as a civilized race I have no intention of making it more difficult by design. I want to have the greatest degree of player freedom possible. This is why I have avoided, among other things, racial strengths/weaknesses.

What fantasy NESes I have read on the forum tend towards the gamey. I want to avoid that if at all possible.

 

[Arrow Gamer]

Do you have any idea when we may be seeing this?

 

[Dachs]

While I agree that playing as barbarians would probably be more difficult -- or at least, different from -- playing as a civilized race I have no intention of making it more difficult by design.

Why not?

 

[Kozmos]

Suggestion: Make barbarians use stronger, more elemental magiks, while civilizations can apply illusions, subtle effects, mindrape, Objectivism, etc.

 

[Dachs]

I think you got which powers should go with which group backwards.

 

[Terrance888]

Maybe Lord of Elves meant they should be more difficult in execution instead of design?

It's the difference of hard coding "Romans always raise huge armies because they're civilized" and situationally state that "Romans always raise huge armies because that's the way their culture is established, their large supply of manpower, their copius amounts of allies, political incentives, etc." Or "Carthage is rich because they're civilized" and "Carthage is rich because they hold a fantastic harbor, inherit Phoenician trade routes, and occuply a strategetic part of the Mediterranean."

In game sense, 1EP still buys 1EP's worth of stuff. But 1EP's worth of stuff means different things. (Warband vs Chieftans vs Militia vs Professionals, for example) depending on not only Civilized/Barbaric, but in game situations like levies, diplomacy, stories etc.

 

[Kozmos]

I think you got which powers should go with which group backwards.

I'm sure I have a mental illness with which to justify the error. Still sharp eye for 'noble savage' bullplop. *awards points*

 

[Lord of Elves]

Maybe Lord of Elves meant they should be more difficult in execution instead of design?

It's the difference of hard coding "Romans always raise huge armies because they're civilized" and situationally state that "Romans always raise huge armies because that's the way their culture is established, their large supply of manpower, their copius amounts of allies, political incentives, etc." Or "Carthage is rich because they're civilized" and "Carthage is rich because they hold a fantastic harbor, inherit Phoenician trade routes, and occuply a strategetic part of the Mediterranean."

In game sense, 1EP still buys 1EP's worth of stuff. But 1EP's worth of stuff means different things. (Warband vs Chieftans vs Militia vs Professionals, for example) depending on not only Civilized/Barbaric, but in game situations like levies, diplomacy, stories etc.

What Terrance said here.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

LoE, What are your thoughts about cultures? Our people don't spawn in a vacuum, and our beliefs and habits don't just spontaneously appear. It'd be fun to have regional NPCs, or even just tribes, that are similar to us in many ways.

 

[Dachs]

What Terrance said here.

That's an irrelevant distinction. "Don't make it because they're 'civilized', make it because of the reasons they're civilized!"