New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Terrance888]

6=EARTH FRESH START MA MANG
0=NO SIMILARITIES AT ALL DUDZ

No other options exist. NONE!

Also, you still owe me stuff. Get to work.

 

[talonschild]

3.

5char

 

[mrrandomplayer]

6=EARTH FRESH START MA MANG
0=NO SIMILARITIES AT ALL DUDZ

No other options exist. NONE!

Also, you still owe me stuff. Get to work.

Oh $%*#! I thought you euthanized your NES. I will get to work! Truth be told, I did all the work a while ago, but the iPad refreshed the page and wiped all of my work.

 

[SouthernKing]

When I read RandNES my mind immediately flashed to some kind of Objectivist competition-story-presidential election-type-NES.

My mind immediately flashed to this

 

[Lord_Herobrine]

So how earthlike do you want the map to be?

5 = Nearly identical
4 = Continental shapes/location similar
3 = 3-5 old world regions, 2-3 new world regions, a few similarities
2 = Old worlds and new worlds have a few board similarities, nothing else
1 = No similarities except for the fact that there is a horizontal Old World and a vertical New World

If nobody votes/cares, I will probably do 3 or 2.

2-3, in my opinion.

 

[Neverwonagame3]

Either 1 or Terrence's 6.

 

[Dachs]

No, but neither are half the things that happen in fresh start NESes. What's your point?

"I am chief. Want big fire. Set up a collection of settlements over by the river in that fertile silt plain and spread our culture over there. Make happen."

Uh, since I don't think any of those things are legitimate orders for a NES I would run or participate in, that's not a particularly effective response on your part. As far as I'm concerned, the player should only be able to control what people were able to control.

Also I think that the entire concept of a "fresh start" is stupid but that is neither here nor there.

 

[SouthernKing]

Uh, since I don't think any of those things are legitimate orders for a NES I would run or participate in.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what his point was.

 

[Dachs]

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what his point was.

So Grandkhan made an incoherent response to something LoE was complaining about solely in order to show everybody one of my most well-known opinions about NESing?

Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

 

[Lord of Elves]

FantasyNES: Working Title

What is this?
This is the product of impulsiveness. Recently it dawned upon me -- probably because I was dragged to see The Hobbit Part Two Electric Boogaloo twice -- that I wanted to do a fantasy fresh start NES. My goal is not to repeat tired Tolkienesque tropes but instead to present an NES which is a reconstruction of those tropes. What is the natural strategic and economic result of dwarven mountain kings, elven forest realms and gnomish adventurers? What kind of political problems do the presence of marauding bands of orcs present? And so on. The goal of this NES is to explore these questions in a quasi-realistic manner, while remaining fantastic enough to be interesting. The world of FantasyNES: Working Title is, just at the moment, a low fantasy world. There is no recognizable magic and the power of kings is constrained to the limits of their vassals, their armies and their wisdom. There are no great mages or all-powerful wizards, or guilds of the two. Seemingly most "western fantasy," works are set during some kind of slump or dark age, after the fall of great empires and the breaking of powerful kingdoms. For intents and purposes this NES can be thought of as beginning in the "First Age," the mythic dawn of civilization, though strictly in a period of medieval stasis. It is the task of the players to assemble great empires and establish long-lasting, influential cultures.

To that end, I present a loose set of guidelines which can (with justification and foresight) be abridged or violated entirely.

On the Constitution and Character of the Civilized Races
Concerning the Race of Men
The race of men, sometimes called humankind or the human race, is sometimes considered the “middling,” race of the civilized peoples. Humans stand at roughly the same height as elves, have lifespans which are comparable to that of other races, and are predisposed to no specific form of civilization. Humans are, however, far more varied than other races in their physical appearance and in their social habits. Human skintones range from as pale as the fairest elf to as dark as the blackest orc and all the various shades in between. Human societies and polities are the most varied in their organization of any race and human settlements are able to thrive in most if not all climates.
Concerning the Race of Elves
By human standards elves are almost uniformly beautiful, and as a result, human barbarian cultures often consider elves to be angels or gods. Despite this there is no evidence to suggest that elves are anything other than a mortal, civilized people, and elven mythological beliefs are generally ignored by serious scholars. Elves stand at roughly human height, though tend towards the tall, and are known to live slightly longer than humans. The elven race is marked by a significant reverence for tradition and consciousness of hierarchy and rank; as a result elven cultures are often organized by complex systems of caste or social rank. Most elven polities are monarchical or aristocratic states of some kind, though the noted religious devotion of the elven peoples has produced several theocratic states. Elves, for whatever reason, seem to prefer temperate or alpine climates and elven settlements prosper in these conditions.
Concerning the Race of Dwarves
So-called for their small stature, matched only by that of gnomes, the dwarves are often thought to be a quarrelsome and disagreeable people by foreigners. In truth the dwarves have a significant martial tradition and code of honor that dictates behavior from the highest to the lowest echelons of dwarven societies. Like the elves the dwarves value tradition and hierarchy to a greater degree than most other peoples, and dwarven states are primarily monarchical or aristocratic affairs, though merchant republics are not uncommon. Because of their small stature dwarves are adept miners and mountaineers and prefer temperate and alpine climates, especially in the presence of mountains and foothills. Dwarven settlements in plains and deserts are not unheard of but they are the exception and far from the rule.
Concerning the Race of Orcs
Sometimes thought of as a barbarian race, orcs are more generously categorized as a recently civilized race. Even more conciliatory scholars have considered the possibility that orcish civilization is a different breed from human, elven and dwarven cultures and cannot be appropriately categorized alongside them. Nonetheless, orcs stand at roughly human and elven height, and are noted for physical athleticism and strength. Orcs are noted by more xenophobic authors for the darkness of their skin and the “cruelty,” of their physical features. As elves are beautiful by human standards, orcs are repugnant. Like the dwarves the orcs have a martial and honorific tradition that permeates every aspect of their societies. The orcs have become known as slave-drivers of some repute, if only for their habitual enslavement of goblins and other uncivilized peoples. Orcs are generally thought as being closely related to barbarian goblin peoples. Orcs are known to thrive in any climatic conditions and are thought of as being one of the most adaptable races.
Concerning the Race of Gnomes
Sometimes thought to be directly related to the dwarven race, gnomes are the only other people in the known world that stand at the same negligible height as the dwarves. Unlike the dwarves however, gnomish society as it is understood by most scholars is significantly more meritocratic and accepting of change as well as foreigners. Gnomes, who are sometimes shorter even the dwarves, are noted for their skill in the fields of engineering and architecture and gnomish mathematicians are considered to be the best in the world. Gnomes are known to thrive in most climates, but generally eschew heated conditions in preference for temperate or alpine biomes.

On the Constitution and Character of the Barbarian Peoples
Concerning the Race of Goblins
Often thought to be in direct relation to the orcish race, goblins are slightly shorter than orcs and are generally lacking in any markings of civilization or intelligence. Goblins are nomadic and roam in large packs, speaking a guttural and shrieking code that is not intelligible as language to most scholars. Goblins, without a recognizable language, have no system of writing and seem to have no established religious traditions other than the worship of dragons. Many goblin tribes are enslaved to orcish states, but still others wander throughout the land, and are prone to fits of unprovoked violence and aggression. Goblins are considered a significant nuisance to nearly all civilized peoples and are often killed on sight.
Concerning the Race of Dragons
Dragons are large, serpent-like reptiles capable of flight. Though they are sometimes known to breathe fire they are generally thought of as dangerous only to the unarmed, and function like large, especially aggressive predatory birds. They are territorial animals that do not hunt in groups and often stake out mountainous caves and lairs. Surprisingly dragons appear to be capable of both understanding and reproducing the speech of many civilized peoples, perhaps owing to their long lifespans. Dragons do not appear to properly understand language as an expression of thought, and instead prefer to phrase simple, object concepts like “hungry,” “angry,” “tired,” or more commonly, “murderous.” Most civilized peoples, when they do not worship dragons, prefer to leave them alone. Occasionally an ambitious dragon will swoop in and steal livestock animals, necessitating the attention of a local lord, but generally they also prefer to exist on the periphery of civilized cultures. Some scholars suspect that dragons are slowly going extinct.
Concerning the Race of Lizardmen
Large, manlike reptilian beasts, lizardmen are not properly understood by scholarly researchers. In large part lizardmen resemble amphibians and reptiles but cannot be traced in their physical appearance to any other race, and are treated as unique. They are more civilized than goblins, and possess a recognizable language that can be – with some difficulty – reproduced by other peoples. They do not have a system of writing or any significant degree of organization but they are much more cogent and coordinated than goblins, and they are not nomadic, by preference, but instead are often forced out of their marsh and swamp homes by human or elven settlement. Lizardmen are not noted for unprovoked violence as goblins are but are known for their martial ferocity and their unwillingness to adopt civilized customs.
Concerning the Race of Giants
I haven't written anything here yet but I suspect we will want some. Giants, I mean. Some.

To what degree are players bound by these descriptions?
Hopefully none! I have created these with the intention of providing a sense of flavor and scope that can be edited, tweaked or done away with altogether. They provide a starting point from which players can branch out and create interesting societies. The intention is not to replay standard tropes but to apply them in creative, interesting ways, or to reject them altogether if the circumstances are right.

What can I do?
You can express support, denigrate this idea in its entirety, provide criticism and so on. Some pressing matters of the moment are whether barbarian peoples should be playable, and to what degree, whether magic of any kind should be included in the NES and finally and most importantly what kind of stats should be used. This NES is not meant to be a stats-heavy NES and I am looking for as much minimalism as possible, while preserving the ability of players to have some kind of view into their actions.

In order to prove the earnestness of my intentions (though I make no guarantee about when this project might be undertaken) here is a map produced by the amazing, the talented, the incredibly sexy Eltain. This is a continent roughly the size of Europe which would serve, for intents and purposes, as the world of the NES.

Spoiler :

 

[Terrance888]

Indeed, incredibly sexy.

Hudda hudda.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

LoE, I'd absolutely be interested in playing this NES. We've had a significant lack of Fantasy Fresh starts here recently.

As for your other questions:
Magic: A strong Yes, though in my opinion it should need to be discovered. We're not born with an instinctual knowledge of Magic, but we need to work at it: Silmarils, Palantir, etc, should be doable, but only at the end of the "first age."

Barbarian people: I think should be playable, though be slightly more difficult. (If Orcs are playable, and are "recently civilized" why not people right on the other side of the cusp.)

 

[SouthernKing]

Definite interest. Hell, we've had a lack of fresh starts in general lately.

edit:
1. I support the playability of barbarians, perhaps with (at least slightly) different mechanics so as to have a different feel to them.
2. Branching from thomas's idea, perhaps you could make magic the equivalent of technology in other NESes? Off the top of my head, I'm not sure how one would actually go about doing this though.
3. Purely aesthetic question, when you mention the continent being the size of Europe, are you referring to one specific land mass that map, or the map as a whole?

 

[Golden1Knight]

Amazing! I would love to participate in this NES.

I think it should certainly be allowed to play with the barbarians, because it would make the NES more interesting and challenging for the civilized peoples.

About magic, I recommend no more than something light. It would be boring to see wizards throwing fireballs and lightnings in the middle of the battlefield, or people predicting the future.

 

[Patchy]

I only support playing as barbarians if they are made weaker than the civilized races at first. That way they would start off picking at the edges of empires instead of immediately having a chance to sack the equivalent of Rome.

I do feel that magic should play a role in this NES but after it has been explored more deeply as this is a fresh start. Also it would be nice if there was some risk associated with exploring the limits of magic so as to slow down the rate at which magic is introduced into the world. For example a court magician is ordered to create a portal by an overly ambitious king even after being told that it is not safe and ends up releasing some uncontrolled demons.

 

[Terrance888]

Linear Civilizations. Exponential Barbarians.

 

[Kozmos]

Other races fine, but you need le majico negro...otherwise its the same pointy stick slapfest.

 

[Lord_Herobrine]

Barbarians yes. Slow down on the introduction and development of magic.

 

[Azale]

LOE I love all of it except the map. Too zoomed in for my tastes

I guess I just want a high-fantasy EoE clone.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Other races fine, but you need le majico negro...otherwise its the same pointy stick slapfest.

Noted. However I am not particularly interested in the existence of standard fantasy mages with fireballs and torrential rains of razor-sharp icicles. This just makes the stats and conflict between player factions significantly more difficult. Ideally the incorporation of magic would allow some fantastic element without frustrating the conditions set down of minimal stats, minimal hassle.

I only support playing as barbarians if they are made weaker than the civilized races at first. That way they would start off picking at the edges of empires instead of immediately having a chance to sack the equivalent of Rome.

I do feel that magic should play a role in this NES but after it has been explored more deeply as this is a fresh start. Also it would be nice if there was some risk associated with exploring the limits of magic so as to slow down the rate at which magic is introduced into the world. For example a court magician is ordered to create a portal by an overly ambitious king even after being told that it is not safe and ends up releasing some uncontrolled demons.

I am particularly fond of your last idea, but this brings into the equation another question of gods, religion and mythology. I would prefer to not have to deal with the existence of deities or supernatural dimensions or whatever so as to allow players to develop their religions and their mythologies to the fullest extent possible. I should mention that I intend for the politics and cultural element of religion to play a significant element in the NES even if the gods serve no function within the game.

LoE, I'd absolutely be interested in playing this NES. We've had a significant lack of Fantasy Fresh starts here recently.

As for your other questions:
Magic: A strong Yes, though in my opinion it should need to be discovered. We're not born with an instinctual knowledge of Magic, but we need to work at it: Silmarils, Palantir, etc, should be doable, but only at the end of the "first age."

Barbarian people: I think should be playable, though be slightly more difficult. (If Orcs are playable, and are "recently civilized" why not people right on the other side of the cusp.)

I like this idea a lot and am seriously considering allowing, under specific conditions, various magical aids to players like limited teleportation and portentious(sp?) visions etc, etc.

I am seriously considering allowing barbarian peoples "on the cusp," of civilization to be playable. However, the only two groups that fit this description are goblins and lizardmen. By their very nature giants (maybe less so) and dragons would be unplayable within the context of the NES as a polity/culture exercise. That said, at the beginning, in order to address Patchy's comment, barbarians would serve the purpose of providing players with goals to achieve. What I mean by this is that unless players act in a very not-smart way barbarians will rarely be strong enough to level a player culture to the ground. Instead they will provide opportunities for expansion or, in the right circumstances, a roadblock to the same.

EDIT: @azale, it's your lucky day because my end goal is "EoE with elves and dwarves and dragons"