Terrain Templates... to make new terrain the easy way

[tom2050]

EDIT/UPDATE:

Thread is located here which will contain the files...
- 12-02-09 Interface Button Graphic Template has been added in above thread.

* Photoshop Template Completion: 99% and will be posted very very soon.
* Paint Shop Pro Template Completion: Yet to be started
* Gimp Template Completion: Yet to be started
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* Automating terrain creation is fully possible.
* I will create a tuturial, and files for Photoshop, PSP, and GIMP
* everything will be mostly automated using pre-designated actions via these programs/using plugins
* will probably work best with either terrain photos (photorealistic or not) or some type of patterned image.
* the pre-designated actions will (may) require any modifications to the graphic to be done prior to inserting the graphic into the correct layer of Photoshop/PSP/Gimp Image to avoid multiple layers being created (which will result in the Action not being able to perform correctly).
* knowledge of Photoshop, PSP, or Gimp is probably not required, but will come greatly in handy if you are familiar with the basics and how to work the programs fairly well.
* End image will be automatically indexed and palette will be created for ease of use, user will just need to save it.
* The whole process of creating a brand new terrain for all base terrain types can take under an hour once familiar with how the process works.

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INITIAL POST:

While I am doing the terrain graphics for CoMM3... It is a bit perplexing knowing which square goes where, how, and why. I know there is info out there that explains it and so forth... and I have gone through much of it... but the only way to really know so-to-speak is to get your hands dirty and map the whole thing out to see how the terrain fits together in the PCX files.

I am hoping that there will be a way to create a Terrain Template of some sort. It would still require some work on the modders part to complete a new terrain graphic... but it could make it much easier.

Using layers in Photoshop or PSP or GIMP... a kind of template should be able to be set up where you can just drop an image of land into the bottom layer, where each square is arranged in the order where it all fits together properly.

Then through copy and paste, each square could be dragged to it's appropriate spot (the correct spot that is in the PCX), and each would be labeled for the user so they know where to put it.

Of course, the main part the user would have to do is making sure different terrains blend properly together and so forth, but there are many plugins that will blend / pixelize or w/e graphics together... So in this template I can setup pre-determined Selections areas that can be loaded; which would allow the user to load the selection and then use a filter function to quickly blend the different terrains together to make it much easier.

I think it should work... and I will update as I go through this to show more of what I hope will work.

If it does work, it may make new terrain creation a much easier process... and allow for photo-realistic terrains to be put into the game!

Now let's just hope I'm not getting too far ahead of myself with this! I just started this today, and I'm sure there will be hurdles involved. If it does end up working, I only have Photoshop and GIMP... so perhaps someone could create a Paint Shop Pro template as well for PSP users.

Tom

 

[Virote_Considon]

Is this what you're looking for?

 

[wolf_brother]

If we can get this to work, we should apply the same process to all other graphics.

 

[Takhisis]

Why not ask Steph to make an extension of his SBB that makes terrain? it can't be that different from the .flc creator...

 

[tom2050]

Is this what you're looking for?

Thank you Virote! Thank will help me alot...

If we can get this to work, we should apply the same process to all other graphics.

I still have the templates (PSD Photoshop files) I used for all Civilopedia and most all other screen graphics in the game... with a few more to make for MP screens and Espinage, etc... They are basically images that consist of many many layers, so changing graphics in a specific spot or moving things around takes just a few clicks. I could upload them all once I clean them up a bit.

Why not ask Steph to make an extension of his SBB that makes terrain? it can't be that different from the .flc creator...

That could work! Didn't even think of that, of course I need to get a correct pattern laid out for each first.

Here's what I am trying to do. In the layered image, I will have all the coasts that have ever been made there set up properly, and the image will be stiched together differently than in the PCX so you can (to an extent) just paste an image or photograph into the image, and it will work. This would still require doing a bit of work to make sure things are trimmed up properly and that different terrains are in the right spots... but it should be doable.

If it gets to a workable phase, then perhaps the final image could just be saved as a BMP, and Stephs program could just quickly rearrange the image (otherwise you would have to do, as I will eventually 81 copy and pastes for each terrain PCX to get them in the right spots).

I'm arranging the tiles to be a workable landmass right now, so I'll try to post some pics of what I'm thinking of trying to do

Tom

 

[Takhisis]

Here is Steph's list of programs.
Steph's SBB already can join multiple separate images into a huge storyboard which can the be turned into a unit using FLICster.
I'd imagine it's not very difficult to do a similar device for creating building and/or terrain graphics, but I'm not a programmer. Let's wait until he poasts.

 

[Steph]

I think doing a tool for that is irrevelent.

When making units, you are using a tool such as Poser, which is rendering dozens of frames, automatically, with an incremental name, in folders which are clearly identified.

Let's say you have 15 frames. Making a storyboard requires a manual copy of 15x8=120 images for each animation.

That's very long and time consuming, for something that can be easily automated, as the frames are rendered with name such as Frame0001, Frame0002, Frame0003, etc.

In the case of terrain, the file are smaller (16 frames for hills), and you won't have an automatic render of each tile, you will make them more or less by hand. Copying them by hand to place it where it belongs is then relatively fast.

It's even worse for building or the Unit32 pcx. You can't automate it as you want to organize it manually to put the building where you want.

So for terrain, the best is to do it manually I think. You already have templates: any existing terrain graphics can be used, just copy and paste above it.

If you have difficulties to understand how it works, try that.

 

[tom2050]

Now that I think about it Steph, I agree completely...

Photoshop has the ability to record actions. Think of it as a preset list of commands that Photoshop can carry out on an image or group of images. I have been using this to assist in unit conversions which speeds up the process and saves hours of work.

I am still stiching together a terrain pattern into the PSD file and have figured out a way to make it where all terrain will match together, even by simply pasting a photo of terrain into the template. Then with the use of the Photoshop Action command that I will eventually record, simply playing that action will take the correct parts of the image and create a terrain PCX for you, correctly formated, automatically indexed, and ready to go.

It will even be able to blend the terrain together automatically, so the user will not have to do it. I'll have to look up and see if I can save these actions as a file though, so other users can use them.

Tom

 

[Blue Monkey]

There are some of us who do not use psd, but for whom a layered template (in psd format) would be readable & useful - like terrain makers who use GIMP, for example. Posting the template with some brief instructions would earn a lot of thanks.

 

[Takhisis]

If Steph says it's irrelevant I'm inclined to believe it is. I've never done much terrain modding. Just switch to an entire set of different graphics, not editing them one by one.

I'm a GIMP guy. Learner. Beginner. Photoshop, PSP, etc are out of my price range. I have to make do with what I can find for free.

I haven't found a "record" action yet in GIMP.

 

[tom2050]

A search on Google shows various ways of getting Photoshop actions over to GIMP/PSP with various plugins, etc. I can test with GIMP, but do not have PSP to test. It looks like there may be a free trial of PSP that can be downloaded... I could use the trail period to come up with something, so I can make sure it works for all programs.

Tom

 

[Takhisis]

A search on Google shows various ways of getting Photoshop actions over to GIMP/PSP with various plugins, etc. I can test with GIMP, but do not have PSP to test. It looks like there may be a free trial of PSP that can be downloaded... I could use the trail period to come up with something, so I can make sure it works for all programs.

Tom

But I don't even know how to use Photoshop, how would I know what to import? I hope you can think up everything for all of us.
I hope you understand my... predicament. I simply can't afford those programs , unless I get cracked copies of them , but why should I do that if there's other programs which are free software or even just shareware?
It's not as if you can't do anything on GIMP though. Blender 3D and POV-Ray are two of the best programs for 3D modelling and rendering, and both are free .

 

[wolf_brother]

But I don't even know how to use Photoshop, how would I know what to import? I hope you understand my predicament. It's not as if you can't do anything on GIMP though. And Blender is one of the best programs for 3D modelling and rendering together with POV-Ray, and both are free.

I'm fairly sure that Tom is simply trying to find a way to set up a template that you (and other GIMP/PSP users) could import; ie, a simple file with instructions that you could download. You don't need Photoshop, Tom has Photoshop, he (or I, or another 'shop user) will create the needed files, export them in a format you can use, and post them here.

 

[Takhisis]

Wait until II finish editing!!

 

[tom2050]

I'm not sure how long the PSP trial lasts for (cnet showed 30 days), so once I have it down and working in Photoshop... I will go through what needs to be done in PSP and Gimp, and make a tuturial for all 3 programs. I will setup up everything for both PSP and Gimp as well and provide or give links to any other 3rd party programs that may be needed (plugins, etc). For plugins, there should be free plugins available for anything that needs to be done.

It somewhat has become vital to let the graphics program be programmed with actions to follow, otherwise you are looking at cutting and pasting each terrain tile back to the correct spot (6 base terrain files with 81 terrain tiles in each; 486 C&P's total). The programmed action will do this all in a few minutes time. The actions in Photoshop can always be modified by a user, and they can be saved, so I can upload them also. PSP and Gimp should be no different.

I believe the landmark terrain files are the same as the non-landmark, so those will be no different, and shouldn't require anything extra.

This won't necessarily provide new coast, but I will try to include different coasts from all the terrains that are currently available, so when doing this, you can choose which you want. Since everyone likes different coasts/water colors, this is the best way to make it easy.

Also, I will try to seperate the coasts from the land, so different color coasts can be put in for different terrains or vice versa, or completely replaced with something else (if someone wants to make a new coast/sea/ocean tiles).

EDIT: I'm 100% done with setting up the first terrain XTGC.pcx format (tundra, grass, coast); and 50% done setting up the Template. All the terrain is set to stitch together flawlessy so there is absolutely no areas that do not match up... in order to do this, there may not be as much 'variety' so to speak (by variety I mean some tiles may match exactly to others except for the shoreline or change to other terrain), but users can add graphical variety to the final result.

I may be able to test in a couple hours.

EDIT: The standard terrain blending method will be similar to as follows:
Initial different terrains will simply be next to each other something like this-


They will automatically be blended when the template runs it's actions to look something like this-


The type of blending can be changed or adjusted at any time, but this way probably works best for Civ3.

Tom

 

[Supa]

Great! Once upon a time, I was using Poser to do every tile one after the other. It *took* a lot of time to do one pcx.

Can you set up some transparency effects with this method ?

 

[Steph]

Hey Tom, if you like making terrain graphics, I need an artist to help me with my game.

 

[tom2050]

Great! Once upon a time, I was using Poser to do every tile one after the other. It *took* a lot of time to do one pcx.

Can you set up some transparency effects with this method ?

Transparency effects? You mean as in making one portion of terrain (such as tundra) be slightly transparent over another set of terrain (such as grassland)? I tested doing that with tundra over grassland, but it just made the tundra look like a darker white (because of the green).

The template pretty much uses transparent backgrounds through the whole thing. For instance, right now all tiles with coast are set up which show just the coast and the beach, with the remaining portions of the isometric tile being transparent.



Then the action takes the selected terrain background you wish to use and merges the 2 together.



It then takes this and places it into a new PCX (xtgc.pcx in this instance).

NOTE: I need to correct some of the coast in the above, as some of the beach pixels were deleted... I was initially rushing just so I could test it out. I am also going to make one where you can add new coast waters to a shoreline (Using this to make new shorelines would be close to impossible, so I will eventually make this to work with all existing shorelines that are currently available).

All other tiles that are all land have their isometric tiles fully transparent. Any graphics that are placed into the transparent tiles (there is a layer for each PCX tile), will be overlayed onto the main terrain graphic that is used.

So with a little work to the main template, anything can be achieved to one's liking.

Is that what you were asking? Or am I way off base It's still somewhat early in the morning, and I have not fully awaken yet.

It was found that it is easier to blend the terrain together after the new terrain PCX has been created. A Selection will be created that one can load that will select all the correct portions of the final PCX and do the terrain blending effect. This will be automated, but it is easy to undo it and adjust if desired.

I am 80% done with the first xtgc.pcx template... I should be able to complete it today.

Although it may sound confusing, doing the whole terrain creation thing for user takes about 5 minutes and 4 mouse clicks.

Hey Tom, if you like making terrain graphics, I need an artist to help me with my game.

I can help, but this is the first time I have ever messed with actual terrain graphics. Creating something that is original, as Supa showed in his above post is currently beyond my abilities (I have yet to fully learn Poser, etc due to lack of time).

How are your terrain graphics set up in your game? Are they similar to the way Civ3 implements them?

Tom

 

[Steph]

How are your terrain graphics set up in your game? Are they similar to the way Civ3 implements them?
Tom

Not exactly. They are also tile based, but each graphics is independant.
Send me an email (stephane.f.david@free.fr) and I can send you some doc.

 

[Supa]

Transparency effects? You mean as in making one portion of terrain (such as tundra) be slightly transparent over another set of terrain (such as grassland)? I tested doing that with tundra over grassland, but it just made the tundra look like a darker white (because of the green).

Yes, this is it.

Creating something that is original, as Supa showed in his above post is currently beyond my abilities (I have yet to fully learn Poser, etc due to lack of time).

What I've done is just a matter of making a few textures, using a few layers with transparency and finding the right angle. A lot like you but a lot less efficient.

I'm eager to test your templates. I might be able to finish my terrain pcx with them.