2020 US Election (Part 3)

[Patine]

Gaslight <---- we are here now
Obstruct
Project

Ah, come on now, with this three part show-and-tell scheme you take such pride in. REAL dictators and despots, and especially REAL Fascists, don't beat around the bush like this, or do these songs and dances. REAL such leaders are much more overt and blatant - and fearless about it.

 

[Joij21]

That's a VERY SPECIFIC phrasing of a concern for a leader's possible demise. Pretty much, "beware the Ides of March," level of specific...

I'm pretty sure this would be more pertinent to Trump.

Beware the Ides of January!!!

 

[Takhisis]

“Virtual Confederacy” sounds like a hamfisted media thing. There’s only been token opposition meant to save face; at worst, we’ll end up with a Trump cable TV channel that takes a bite out of Rupert Murdoch’s lunch. Ho-hum.

Trump's imitators in Britain got Brexit to happen, just so that you remember.

 

[Joij21]

Trump's imitators in Britain got Brexit to happen, just so that you remember.

This is relevant how?

Does Borris really have that much support from his people over Brexit? Last I heard it was all a ham-fisted affair, and that if the referendum was done today instead of four years ago you would have a very different result. So going by that logic where's Borris' and crew's populist "Virtual Confederacy"?

 

[Berzerker]

Still waiting for the fat lady to sing, in fact this youtube sez she may sing for trump.

Be for warned, the video is narrated by guys with many, many smarts and they discuss the subject in detail.

I've watched and understood.

Did they analyze other counties in Michigan and other states to check for patterns? And the graph showing GOP straight party ballots (X axis) also showed Trump voters who didn't vote straight party (Y axis) voted less for Trump as the X axis increased.

Doesn't that suggest more independent minded people didn't vote for Trump as much in counties with an increasing number of straight ticket Republicans. Still, I wouldn't expect such a linear growth of dis-satisfaction repeatedly showing up.

Its interesting how Trump did well in less Republican precincts only to lose support the more Republican they became. It seems strange non-Republicans would favor Trump more in Democrat districts than Republican ones. I'm a bit shocked the vote total was so high. That was 20 million more than 2016.

We found out this past summer that most of the dossier was part of a Russian misinformation campaign.

When looking at the dossier and the 2016 campaign you have two perspectives. The first is from that of in real time during the 2016-2017 without hindsight. The second is from now with full hindsight. For example, in 2016 non one knew that the Russians had planted misinformation into the dossier. In 2016 people acted without that knowledge. Now, we know that, so 2016 events take on a different light when looked at in 2020. There will be books on this in the future.

When did the Clinton crowd and FBI know? They were paying for that 'information' after all and using it to spy on Trump with the blessings of Democrats riding to battle on their moral high horses.

Lying back to the law enforcement agents when they have evidence to prove it's a lie is a crime. They can lie to you but you can't lie back. In this case Flynn lied that he had not been in contact with Russia while they had evidence proving otherwise. Him having contact with Russia is not the crime, him lying about it is.

That wasn't the lie and the FBI notes show an agent asking if the purpose of the interview was to get him to lie, thats entrapment. They were inducing the crime, that was the reason for the interview. As I said earlier, the FBI was closing the investigation and Strzok reversed the decision and Obama's top people went after Flynn in one last attempt to nail him.

They already knew - and apparently Flynn assumed they had a transcript of his conversation - that he spoke with Kislyak about the sanctions. Flynn even told them to check their transcript if he was unclear about what was discussed. Here's a transcript of Flynn's calls:

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthe...d9e96e708a9b0c8ba58/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

Flynn's comments about the sanctions were limited to Russia's reaction, not the actual sanctions. I'm looking for a transcript of Flynn's FBI interview so I dont know what exactly he denied and the context.

https://thehill.com/opinion/judicia...ripts-reveal-plenty-except-crime-or-collusion

The case for entrapment

While investigators said they were not convinced that Flynn intentionally lied, he gave a false statement. Special counsel Robert Mueller charged Flynn with that false statement to pressure him into cooperating. Flynn fought the case into virtual bankruptcy but agreed to plead guilty when Mueller threatened to prosecute his son. The newly released transcripts reveal a shocking lack of foundation for that criminal charge.

The courts have held that the materiality requirement for such a charge requires that false statements must be linked to the particular subject of the investigation. The Justice Department found that the false statement was not material to any investigation. In other words, by that time, these officials remained in search of a crime. The question is why?

The transcripts confirm there was never any criminal conduct or evidence of collusion against Flynn before or during the calls. There was no federal criminal investigation to speak of when Comey sent “a couple guys over” to entrap Flynn. They already had the transcripts and the knowledge that Flynn had done nothing wrong.

Berzerker doesn't care about truth or law unless he can twist it to support his perversion.

Lol, what happened to you?

@abradley @Berzerker @onejayhawk and you three continue to defend this turd. Without statements to the contrary you seem to agree with his leadership behavior and his delusion that he will win. I don't recall any of you saying in 2016 that Trump couldn't be declared the winner until Dec 14th when it would be official.

Apparently 250,000 dead is not enough for you and nothing needs to be done. Trump is such a great president. Re-read the oath he took four years ago.

The enemies list is growing, welcome Bradley. What does 'without statements to the contrary you seem to agree with his leadership behavior' mean? Does that mean we support everything he does even if we dont say so? Does that mean you agree with Obama and Biden destroying several Muslim countries.

Oh yeah, one million dead, several million refugees, but you get to blame every covid death on Trump because Fauci lied about masks, Cuomo sent sick people into nursing homes, and Pelosi told people to visit Chinatown. Blame Canada! Blame Canada!

 

[FriendlyFire]

Trump because Fauci lied about masks

Should have stop testing /s
Inject disinfectant /s
It will just disappear like magic /s
Deaths are way down /s
I give myself an A /s
Cornavirus is a hoax /s
Pandemic is undercontrol /s
Read the books /s
It Obamas fault for not having cornavirus test /s
hydroxychloroquine cues corna /s

 

[Patine]

Trump's imitators in Britain got Brexit to happen, just so that you remember.

How is Brexit a "Trump imitation," policy, if I may ask? What, exactly, are you saying, here?

 

[Berzerker]

"The russians" didn't plant anything. Steele, a british spy, was hired by american politicians to produce his fiction work for the specific propose of political smear on a rival. He took the money and in turn hired a cheap russian national he could find in Washington DC, a drunkard working for an america lobbyist group, and another in Cyprus. They produced what Steele was paying for: sleazy allegations to be used in a political, and as it turned out legal, campaign.

Agency here was not by "the russians". Any russians would do so to write the fiction long as they were imaginative in making up m,ear material and could be described as a "russian source". Golden showers and all that... Agency was with the people specifying the purpose and paying for that dossier.

Steele was not some poor sod deceived by russians. He paid people to do the exact job they did.

This new information came from recently declassified footnotes of the Horowitz report.

Here is the full, but redacted, report.

At the very end of this link you will find the newly unredacted (mostly) footnotes.
Article about the footnotes

Republicans wanted the information declassified because they felt it helps their case against the investigation. The implications are that Steele was duped by the Russians and that the FBI ignored that possibility.

Thats so interesting, Russians leak emails (allegedly) revealing Democrat corruption and Trump gets in trouble. The Clinton campaign pays for Russian disinformation and sends it to Obama's FBI who uses it to spy on Trump...and... Trump gets in trouble.

 

[Berzerker]

Should have stop testing /s
Inject disinfectant /s
It will just disappear like magic /s
Deaths are way down /s
I give myself an A /s
Cornavirus is a hoax /s
Pandemic is undercontrol /s
Read the books /s
It Obamas fault for not having cornavirus test /s
hydroxychloroquine cues corna /s

Trump is not blameless, he's just not alone. Democrats are trying to hide their complicity by blaming him for everything, thats sleazy but hardly a surprise after years of Russiagaters lying to us. I strongly suspect more people died because Fauci and the medical community told us the virus wasn't that bad and masks weren't needed.

It wasn't just Trump who was repeating their lie, both parties and the media were complicit. But I doubt many people paid attention to Trump. As for your list, I dont want to track down the context for each of them but I did look up the hoax. He was talking about the Democrat's criticisms of his handling of the virus. This was their new hoax, ie the replacement hoax for Russiagate.

 

[Kyriakos]

Since all states have been called, when will any recounts happen?
It is certainly a very high order to expect change to 2-3 states from the recounts...

 

[El_Machinae]

I strongly suspect more people died because Fauci and the medical community told us the virus wasn't that bad and masks weren't needed.

I know I don't have much empathy into the 'Fauci lied' bit, because I didn't get that part of the story in real time. I can only interpret it in the light of the general knowledge that "mask hoarding won't help, but hurt" (which is the other half of your counter-factual, wipespread hoarding shortages).

When did you buy a mask, yourself? Like, do you remember the approximate date?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Exile for the turd.

https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...s4lOfX40qCZ05dwKcH1KXv775u_g_GnbV1s2b1-2i3jOM

 

[Kyriakos]

Hm, you know it isn't that terrible to have the other party win an election too. Dem party had Obama, with 2 terms, then came Trump. I doubt he will be put on trial for legal stuff either - due to political reasons.
Anyway, I hope the US will have a better foreign policy under Biden/Biden's handlers, but I am never optimistic about such things.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Trump is not blameless, he's just not alone. Democrats are trying to hide their complicity by blaming him for everything, thats sleazy but hardly a surprise after years of Russiagaters lying to us. I strongly suspect more people died because Fauci and the medical community told us the virus wasn't that bad and masks weren't needed.

It wasn't just Trump who was repeating their lie, both parties and the media were complicit. But I doubt many people paid attention to Trump. As for your list, I dont want to track down the context for each of them but I did look up the hoax. He was talking about the Democrat's criticisms of his handling of the virus. This was their new hoax, ie the replacement hoax for Russiagate.

Let me just fact check you claims

This is called false equivalency and it continues to amaze me that you continue to take Trumps word, as facts after 4 years and 20,000 lies. How are you still failing to connect the dot ?

Trump’s False Claims about Pelosi and Chinatown
Pelosi didn’t deny its existence — contrary to Trump’s remarks — while visiting Chinatown. She struck a middle ground. “Prevention, prevention, prevention. We want people to be concerned and vigilant,” she said. “However, we don’t want them to be afraid.”

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-false-claims-about-pelosi-and-chinatown/

Does Cuomo Share Blame for 6,200 Virus Deaths in N.Y. Nursing Homes?
When looking at deaths as a share of the total state population, New York has fewer nursing home deaths per capita than neighboring states like Connecticut, Massachusetts or New Jersey.
About 21 percent of all coronavirus deaths in New York occurred in a nursing home or long-term care facility, the lowest rate out of any other state in the country, according to a Times analysis.

Mr. Cuomo and health officials said that under existing regulations, the homes could turn patients away if they were unable to safely care for them. But most home administrators felt they had no choice but to accept them; denying patients could lead to a loss in revenue and invite regulatory scrutiny.

The influx of about 6,326 coronavirus patients to nursing homes from hospitals did not cause the virus’s spread; the more likely source was the tens of thousands of workers who tested positive or were presumed to be infected who brought the virus into the facilities between March and June.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/nyregion/nursing-homes-deaths-coronavirus.html

This was their new hoax, ie the replacement hoax for Russiagate.

I stand corrected.

Democratic Ad Twists Trump’s ‘Hoax’ Comment

No, no, no. “Hoax” referring to the action that they take to try and pin this on somebody, because we’ve done such a good job. The hoax is on them
So the overwhelming bulk of the ad is on target. But the beginning is deceptive

The ad has Trump saying, “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China.” That’s what Trump told CNBC in an interview from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, on Jan. 22.

The ad continues with Trump saying, “One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” That’s what Trump told a gathering of African American leaders at a meeting on Feb. 27.

The next quote is, “When you have 15 people and within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.” Trump said this at a press conference on Feb. 26.

“We really think we’ve done a great job in keeping it down to a minimum.” Trump said that at the same press conference.

The ad also quotes Trump: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it.” Trump said this, referring to medical issues, during a visit to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on March 6.

And finally, the ad quotes Trump saying, “No, I don’t take responsibility at all.” That’s what the president said at a press conference on March 13 when asked if he took responsibility for the federal government’s lag in testing for the coronavirus.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/democratic-ad-twists-trumps-hoax-comment/

 

[Birdjaguar]

I know I don't have much empathy into the 'Fauci lied' bit, because I didn't get that part of the story in real time. I can only interpret it in the light of the general knowledge that "mask hoarding won't help, but hurt" (which is the other half of your counter-factual, wipespread hoarding shortages).

When did you buy a mask, yourself? Like, do you remember the approximate date?

Yeah, he is just trying to shift the blame from from Trump to others by pointing out useless facts that have no actual bearing on the thousands dying and tens of thousands being hospitalized.

We've already surpassed the combat deaths of the civil war (both sides) of 214,000 and as well as all other US wars; and are approaching WW2 combat death levels (291,000). Early on in this situation Trump declared war on the virus. As a wartime president he has shown capabilities quite clearly. I think Trump will surpass WW2 combat deaths before he leaves office.

 

[El_Machinae]

Yeah, he is just trying to shift the blame from from Trump to others by pointing out useless facts that have no actual bearing on the thousands dying and tens of thousands being hospitalized.

It's just that I don't have much insight into how the mask 'controversy' played out with people. I remember the WHO guidance in late January - masks were essential for front-line workers and for people expressing symptoms. And there were worries that hoarding and misuse would render much of the lay-person mask efforts counter-productive. Honestly, the only thing that's surprised me was that we later on started suggesting made-at-home cotton masks (cotton had previously been recommended against), but that's when the zeitgeist of 'asymptomatic people should mask up as well' kicked in, so there were different goals for why we'd be masking.

Masks were common, and surprisingly partisan, well before the 2nd wave started.

 

[Birdjaguar]

It's just that I don't have much insight into how the mask 'controversy' played out with people. I remember the WHO guidance in late January - masks were essential for front-line workers and for people expressing symptoms. And there were worries that hoarding and misuse would render much of the lay-person mask efforts counter-productive. Honestly, the only thing that's surprised me was that we later on started suggesting made-at-home cotton masks (cotton had previously been recommended against), but that's when the zeitgeist of 'asymptomatic people should mask up as well' kicked in, so there were different goals for why we'd be masking.

Masks were common, and surprisingly partisan, well before the 2nd wave started.

There was no national plan and Trump failed to provide any guidance other than not being responsible. He supported resistance to wearing masks, even after it was shown to work in Asia. He had the power and the pulpit to convince his followers to mask up and social distance. He failed in both.

 

[El_Machinae]

There was no national plan and Trump failed to provide any guidance other than not being responsible. He supported resistance to wearing masks, even after it was shown to work in Asia. He had the power and the pulpit to convince his followers to mask up and social distance. He failed in both.

As I'd said previously: he gave light to people who suggested chloroquine, vitamin D, and not wearing masks in order to boost herd immunity. Counter-helpful. And now things are worse.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Trump has spent 10 months making things worse.

 

[Joij21]

We've already surpassed the combat deaths of the civil war (both sides) of 214,000

It was actually 600,000 but okay.