2020 US Election (Part 3)

[innonimatu]

This new information came from recently declassified footnotes of the Horowitz report.

Here is the full, but redacted, report.

At the very end of this link you will find the newly unredacted (mostly) footnotes.
Article about the footnotes

Republicans wanted the information declassified because they felt it helps their case against the investigation. The implications are that Steele was duped by the Russians and that the FBI ignored that possibility.

Nothing in those footnotes proves it was "russian intelligence disinformation". It's a claim:

The (redacted) stated that it did not have high confidence in this subset of Steele's reporting and assessed that the referenced subset was part of a Russian disinformation campaign to denigrate US foreign relations.

Who is "the redacted"? One of the many liars like Steele? Steele knowingly hired at least two russians to fabricated "disinformation" for a specific purpose. Steele was the director here, the ruaains were just about any russinas available so he could claim a "russian source". One works for a "think-tank" in Washington, has swapped allegiances to the blob in DC long ago. The other expatriate he paid to invent stuff worked for a russian oligarch in Cyprus and seems to have sought this jig with Steele after being booted off that service.
There was a disinformation campaign all right. But it wasn't one conducted by the russians against Trump. Which, in itself if it had been so it would put the lie to the claim of russian influence to support Trump in the campaign. The campaign was conducted by Steele, on pay first by the republicans and then by the democrats, against the candidate Trump. And the campaign's propaganda in the media worked so well that you keep believing the "russians did it" thing, even as the claims that it was to "help Trump" have collapsed and you have been forced to admit so. Now you want to believe it was to "denigrate US foreign relations"? The russians wanted the US to denigrate foreign relations with the russians and turn hostile on the russians? How desperate must you be to believe that claim?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Nothing in those footnotes proves it was "russian intelligence disinformation". It's a claim:

Who is "the redacted"? One of the many liars like Steele? Steele knowingly hired at least two russians to fabricated "disinformation" for a specific purpose. Steele was the director here, the ruaains were just about any russinas available so he could claim a "russian source". One works for a "think-tank" in Washington, has swapped allegiances to the blob in DC long ago. The other expatriate he paid to invent stuff worked for a russian oligarch in Cyprus and seems to have sought this jig with Steele after being booted off that service.
There was a disinformation campaign all right. But it wasn't one conducted by the russians against Trump. Which, in itself if it had been so it would put the lie to the claim of russian influence to support Trump in the campaign. The campaign was conducted by Steele, on pay first by the republicans and then by the democrats, against the candidate Trump. And the campaign's propaganda in the media worked so well that you keep believing the "russians did it" thing, even as the claims that it was to "help Trump" have collapsed and you have been forced to admit so. Now you want to believe it was to "denigrate US foreign relations"? The russians wanted the US to denigrate foreign relations with the russians and turn hostile on the russians? How desperate must you be to believe that claim?

idk, the Trump Republicans seem to believe the claim or they wouldn't have made the effort to get it into the public domain. Your claim that it is false has even less basis in reality.

I'm glad you keep up with the the goals and practices of Russian intelligence and they they keep you in the loop on the hows and whys of what they do.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Stop the Steal's massive disinformation campaign connected to Roger Stone
By Rob Kuznia, Curt Devine, Nelli Black and Drew Griffin, CNN
Updated 11:08 AM ET, Sat November 14, 2020


https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/13/business/stop-the-steal-disinformation-campaign-invs/index.html

No surprises here.

 

[El_Machinae]

idk, the Trump Republicans seem to believe the claim or they wouldn't have made the effort to get it into the public domain.

but the supporters will do anything to muddy the waters, so 'they find it credible' isn't useful.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

From another thread I didn't want to derail with politics -

Yes, atm there is no distribution network with the capability of actually getting the vaccine to people. Maybe we need a plan?

This is why a failure to allow Biden to have an orderly transition will end up killing people when Trump fails to be a leader on this issues as he has been pretty much the entire pandemic.

 

[Birdjaguar]

From another thread I didn't want to derail with politics -

This is why a failure to allow Biden to have an orderly transition will end up killing people when Trump fails to be a leader on this issues as he has been pretty much the entire pandemic.

Trump supporters don't care as long as they can blame someone else rather than "their boy".

 

[Gorbles]

This sounds like a bad Cold War movie cliché. Can you please give me a REAL answer?

It's fine to not like an answer, but you not liking it doesn't make it wrong in of itself

 

[Takhisis]

Depends, if you include disease and deaths in POW camps military deaths reach 400,000. Add in the civilians and you get 600,000.

Though honestly I think your kinda stretching it to say this disease is so deadly it's like the civil war. Also to most people it's not considered as tragic as it is a more peaceful death to die of this sickness then as a result of direct violence.

It does have in common with war that it's more deadly for the poor and the dark-skinned.

This sounds like a bad Cold War movie cliché. Can you please give me a REAL answer?

I wasn't answering you earlier already in any case.

 

[Patine]

If people died because of Fauci, then that has to be put on Trump not the democrats as he appointed him.

The leader taking full blame for every failing of mostly autonomously acting appointees is yet another symptom of the Medieval head-of-state responsibility thing that really SHOULD not be brought back into the parlance of the modern day. It's ridiculous! The Land and the King are NOT one! I'm sorry, but Saint Bede and Geoffery of Monmouth's view of the part and responsibility of a head-of-state personally in the prosperity or suffering their nation completely on their shoulders is a barbaric throwback idea, and one that completely ignores the complexity, and multifaceted responsibility that goes into running a nation.

Trump has a good fit with Napoleon indeed

https://www.dispropaganda.com/singl...royed-the-French-revolution-and-France-itself

Perhaps that island should be big enough for not only some golf resorts, but also a small airport with a military camp to get finally his yearly military parade in nice uniforms with some airplanes flying over.
And ofc a palace with lots of gold and mirrors.

Please, do not compare Trump and Napoleon. You're effectively comparing a talking orangatang to a Renaissance man.

It's fine to not like an answer, but you not liking it doesn't make it wrong in of itself

It's obvious, though, it isn't the answer. That's easy to puzzle out with even a little thought. It IS a bad Cold War cliché, and a deflection and red herring, because the situation is FAR more complicated, and the real reason doesn't serve the over-simplified, binary-thinking, and ridiculous premise of the original statement. But this kind of Pablum answer, and then defended when called by out by making snide, evasive retorts, or even criticism some part of the personal character of the one calling out such garbage, has become dirt common of late. It's unfortunate to see you've embraced such toxic habits, lock, stock, and barrel, to the point you see nothing wrong at all wrong with them.

I wasn't answering you earlier already in any case.

To be fair, I asked an almost exact paraphrasing of the question you DID answer, and I quoted the post by you that was quoted by the one who asked the question that you did respond to - so, in a way you were answering me. Such a sharp, acidly response here such shows you can't defend your ridiculous and nonsensical statement, so aggressive non-responses are all you feel you can resort to.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Stop the Steal's massive disinformation campaign connected to Roger Stone
By Rob Kuznia, Curt Devine, Nelli Black and Drew Griffin, CNN
Updated 11:08 AM ET, Sat November 14, 2020


https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/13/business/stop-the-steal-disinformation-campaign-invs/index.html

No surprises here.

A CNN reporter at the MAGA rally today was questioning an attendee and the guy repeated Trump's dubbing of FOX News as "Crooked FOX"...

There is no more Republican party it seems... only the Trump party.

 

[Hrothbern]

Please, do not compare Trump and Napoleon. You're effectively comparing a talking orangatang to a Renaissance man.

He was indeed educated, just like Boris Johnson, whereby Napoleon was a hard worker as well contrary to Johnson and Trump.
But in terms of hunger for power there was not much difference and in terms of recklessly gambling with their country also not much difference
In terms of military casualties Napoleon was again the nr 1 bastard. He even got in the direction of Hitler. Napoleon 3 million military deaths and Hitler when the the population of Europe was three times as big approx 17 million deaths: a 9:17 rate.
And most important of all:
We had in NL a nice liberal Republic since two hundred years and after Napoleon we were forced to accept the standard restauration treatment in Europe with absolute monarchies again. We needed a new revolt to correct that in 1848.

 

[Takhisis]

you can't defend your ridiculous and nonsensical statement

that's, like, your opinion, man

and i've already told you enough times to stop addresing me - i'm not addressing you so stop butting in

 

[Takhisis]

A CNN reporter at the MAGA rally today was questioning an attendee and the guy repeated Trump's dubbing of FOX News as "Crooked FOX"...

There is no more Republican party it seems... only the Trump party.

Yeah, its a party made as a glove for entryists to put their hand in and it's caught up with them at last.

 

[Patine]

He was indeed educated, just like Boris Johnson, whereby Napoleon was a hard worker as well contrary to Johnson and Trump.
But in terms of hunger for power there was not much difference and in terms of recklessly gambling with their country also not much difference
In terms of military casualties Napoleon was again the nr 1 bastard. He even got in the direction of Hitler. Napoleon 3 million military deaths and Hitler when the the population of Europe was three times as big approx 17 million deaths: a 9:17 rate.
And most important of all:
We had in NL a nice liberal Republic since two hundred years and after Napoleon we were forced to accept the standard restauration treatment in Europe with absolute monarchies again. We needed a new revolt to correct that in 1848.

You make it sound like "hunger for power," is such a rare trait in history as to be attributed to these three men, and close ilk? Hundreds, perhaps thousands, even tens of thousands (perhaps that's even too much of an understatement) of historical leaders shared a "hunger of power," (for so very many of them, it's almost certainly what made them relevant on the pages of history in the first place), but had completely and totally different traits in most other ways to those three men.

 

[Patine]

that's, like, your opinion, man

and i've already told you enough times to stop addresing me - i'm not addressing you so stop butting in

Then you know what to do, but TOS says I'm not allowed to say it.

And, as a note, the whole, "I'm not addressing you so stop butting in," trope on a PUBLIC forums really bugs me, and shows a whole new level of disingenuous conduct.

 

[Hrothbern]

You make it sound like "hunger for power," is such a rare trait in history as to be attributed to these three men, and close ilk? Hundreds, perhaps thousands, even tens of thousands (perhaps that's even too much of an understatement) of historical leaders shared a "hunger of power," (for so very many of them, it's almost certainly what made them relevant on the pages of history in the first place), but had completely and totally different traits in most other ways to those three men.

Normally there are constraints on recklessly following that power hunger drive. The exceptions break through, unchained by traditions, breaking traditions, changing the rules of the game.
Normally the existing elite kill or encapsulate those exceptions at an early stage of their careers.

 

[Takhisis]

Found it on Discord, really, but is Donald Trump's new hair colour an admission of defeat? (he's gone from gold to silver)

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yeah, its a party made as a glove for entryists to put their hand in and it's caught up with them at last.

THERE IS NO REPUBLICANS... ONLY TRUMP

 

[Sommerswerd]

Found it on Discord, really, but is Donald Trump's new hair colour an admission of defeat? (he's gone from gold to silver)

I noticed that as well today. My wife pointed it out and I've been looking at it all day wondering if it was just lighting or if he's just stopped dyeing because he doesn't give a crap anymore.

It can't be the trademark POTUS stress... because he doesn't do jack **** besides golf.

 

[Takhisis]

Oh, I love this, the Donald threatens that New York won't get the fabled vaccine. Could this possibly be related to NY state attorneys investigating him?