2020 US Election (Part 3)

[Ziggy Stardust]

Clearly you are not paying attention. The Party Leadership might throw Trump under the bus. But he would win the nomination with no challenge whatsoever. Because while many of the leaders recognize him as a liability to The Cause, in thee end Trump is what the Republican voters want. And the reality of the situation is that Trump is what the The Party Leadership wants as well. They just aren't willing to say so openly. What The Party Leadership wants is the Trump agenda without the Trump baggage. But whether they like it or not, the one comes with the other.

Unless a competent more popular candidate with the same agenda steps up.

We have seen in the past how candidates can rise to popularity in one month, and down the other. Just think Herman Cain used to be a front runner, followed by Michelle Bachmann, followed by other doofus yoghurts. This time around there might be a whole host of Trump clones, and we better hope they cloned his incompetence as well. And since Fox are no longer besties with Trump, they will gladly hook their little wagon behind a similar candidate without the bagage.

Only the die hard Trumpees have dropped Fox. The size and determination of those Deep State Conspiracy Loonies will determine whether Trump will be unavoidable. We can only guess now. We'll have to wat a couple of years to see the developments there.

What will happen in 4 years is up to way to many variables, some of them bananapeanutbuttersandwhich crazy. And you cannot predict what bananapeanutbuttersandwhich crazy is going to do.

 

[mitsho]

unless of course "the other line" can fall behind a compromise candidate early on, say Marco Rubio, Nikki Haley, another Bush or someone like Kasich. And I really hope they do, cause "fool me once, and so on".

But I am really disheartened that we are again talking about Trump. Can't we just let him go, let the New York Attorney General try to get him in jail for tax fraud and concentrate on what is happening right now (the Biden Administration) instead of already looking forward to the next round? (or rather the second next round since there's midterms as well).

 

[IglooDame]

What will happen in 4 years is up to way to many variables, some of them bananapeanutbuttersandwhich crazy. And you cannot predict what bananapeanutbuttersandwhich crazy is going to do.

So far I've been having pretty good luck with predictions by thinking "he wouldn't really do that, would he?" and then answering myself in the affirmative.

 

[Patine]

unless of course "the other line" can fall behind a compromise candidate early on, say Marco Rubio, Nikki Haley, another Bush or someone like Kasich. And I really hope they do, cause "fool me once, and so on".

But I am really disheartened that we are again talking about Trump. Can't we just let him go, let the New York Attorney General try to get him in jail for tax fraud and concentrate on what is happening right now (the Biden Administration) instead of already looking forward to the next round? (or rather the second next round since there's midterms as well).

Oh, please not another Bush! I know I greatly dissent from the vast majority here by saying this, and I say this as having no praise or anything but calling out and excoriation for the monstrous, horrid mess and incompetence of the Trump Administration (despite the false accusation of certain posters here to my face whose posts can be dismissed for the disingenuous personal attacks they were), I do consider the Administration of George W. Bush to be worse, and people are people are being misguided to overlook the much more insidious and calculated evil and violation of the United States' core principles, and high crimes domestically and abroad he just got away with...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh, please not another Bush! I know I greatly dissent from the vast majority here by saying this, and I say this as having no praise or anything but calling out and excoriation for the monstrous, horrid mess and incompetence of the Trump Administration (despite the false accusation of certain posters here to my face whose posts can be dismissed for the disingenuous personal attacks they were), I do consider the Administration of George W. Bush to be worse, and people are people are being misguided to overlook the much more insidious and calculated evil and violation of the United States' core principles, and high crimes domestically and abroad he just got away with...

I see you make a distinction there. Mitsho would rather have a Bush than a Trump. Mitsho did not say he wanted another Bush administration with sleazeballs like Dick Cheney and Carl Rove.

My impression was (I could be wrong of course) he was talking about the person rather than the administration. And I agree. Bush was comically inept, Trump was offensively inept. If we're only talking about the television filling addressing the nation, I'll have Bush any time. Now if you really want to get scary, imagine The Bush Administration with Trump.

 

[Patine]

I see you make a distinction there. Mitsho would rather have a Bush than a Trump. Mitsho did not say he wanted another Bush administration with sleazeballs like Dick Cheney and Carl Rove.

My impression was (I could be wrong of course) he was talking about the person rather than the administration. And I agree. Bush was comically inept, Trump was offensively inept. If we're only talking about the television filling addressing the nation, I'll have Bush any time. Now if you really want to get scary, imagine The Bush Administration with Trump.

I am highly dubious of George W. Bush's inept, comical, innocent mascot for Cheney and Rove narrative. His father was a former Director, and long-time agent of the world's largest, most-prolific, and best-funded terrorist and organized crime group and den of assassinations and insidious strippers of liberty and self-determination of whole nations on the planet - the CIA - as well as VERY POSSIBLY, with significant evidence (but, I admit, not hard proof, and thus I won't outright accuse) who had a hand in JFK's assassination and the attempted assassination of Reagan. Barbara Bush, his mother, was also kind of macabre, in a hard to define sort of way. This is not an upbringing that usually produces the figure you're seeing in George W. Bush.

 

[mitsho]

Yeah, just to make that clear, I wouldn't want another Bush. I was just listing names that would run in the "not-Trump" lane in the Republican primary, as I'm not sure it's worth it to distinguish further between Libertarians, Moderates and whomever. In all probability, I'd personally still would prefer the Democratic Candidate.

The Bush (Junior) administration in so far differed from Trump in that it was really a broad network, a big coalition in the Republican party. Pence can be fired, Cheney less so. But Bush (junior) would have had no interest as well in firing Cheney, as they were on the same side and from the same sub-group of Republicans. And again, they had an ideology and a conception of governance, something that seems to have gone missing in the 2020 Republicans, where it's just about "less" everywhere.

Spoiler edited in later to adress Bush v Orange :

And then the question is what is better to not have in a government you don't like. Predictability and stability versus Capability for long-term evil planning. I'd still go with the first one being present since it gives the reassurance that nobody (accidentally) launches a nuclear bomb somewhere.

Well, at least we aren't talking about the orange one anymore Still, my main goal with the post above was to steer us towards the democratic side again. I guess it's a futile endeavour.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I am highly dubious of George W. Bush's inept, comical, innocent mascot for Cheney and Rove narrative. His father was a former Director, and long-time agent of the world's largest, most-prolific, and best-funded terrorist and organized crime group and den of assassinations and insidious strippers of liberty and self-determination of whole nations on the planet - the CIA - as well as VERY POSSIBLY, with significant evidence (but, I admit, not hard proof, and thus I won't outright accuse) who had a hand in JFK's assassination and the attempted assassination of Reagan. Barbara Bush, his mother, was also kind of macabre, in a hard to define sort of way. This is not an upbringing that usually produces the figure you're seeing in George W. Bush.

W was an inept boob who was run by others.

 

[Samson]

I am highly dubious of George W. Bush's inept, comical, innocent mascot for Cheney and Rove narrative. His father was a former Director, and long-time agent of the world's largest, most-prolific, and best-funded terrorist and organized crime group and den of assassinations and insidious strippers of liberty and self-determination of whole nations on the planet - the CIA - as well as VERY POSSIBLY, with significant evidence (but, I admit, not hard proof, and thus I won't outright accuse) who had a hand in JFK's assassination and the attempted assassination of Reagan. Barbara Bush, his mother, was also kind of macabre, in a hard to define sort of way. This is not an upbringing that usually produces the figure you're seeing in George W. Bush.

You are suggesting that George H.W. Bush tried to have Reagan killed? Good story and all, but why?

 

[Patine]

The Bush (Junior) administration in so far differed from Trump in that it was really a broad network, a big coalition in the Republican party. Pence can be fired, Cheney less so. But Bush (junior) would have had no interest as well in firing Cheney, as they were on the same side and from the same sub-group of Republicans. And again, they had an ideology and a conception of governance, something that seems to have gone missing in the 2020 Republicans, where it's just about "less" everywhere.

It was still evil - a pack of high criminals and traitors to the principles the United States was founded on, and all indictable under the terms of the Nuremberg Protocols and in gross violation and contempt of U.S. Constitutional Government ideals. And Biden and Hillary Clinton fully and enthusiastically supported this atrocity and betrayal from the Senate. Just being, "not Trump," did not make it better or less horrid and monstrous. People have to get out of the, "anyone but Trump has been and will be better, automatically," blinders, or there's going to be REAL trouble in the future smack everyone quite unexpectedly.

W was an inept boob who was run by others.

But I fully believe he was completely complicent, and not at all innocent.

 

[Patine]

You are suggesting that George H.W. Bush tried to have Reagan killed? Good story and all, but why?

As I said, I am not making an accusation, and there is not proof, but there is evidence.

 

[mitsho]

People have to get out of the, "anyone but Trump has been and will be better, automatically," blinders, or there's going to be REAL trouble in the future smack everyone quite unexpectedly.

Again, I am really not.

Also, you jumped from a sarcastically intended comment by me ("someone from the bush clan") to the whole story of the Iraq War and the George H.W. Bush's presidency. Might it be that you have some sort of obsession with it? Because I tend to not blame someone for what his or her family had done - and that hypothetical future Bush candidate wouldn't be George H.W. Bush - so why your urge to pick him out of line-up of four names and talk about it? Just let it be.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I am highly dubious of George W. Bush's inept, comical, innocent mascot for Cheney and Rove narrative.

I didn't say 'innocent'. Are you also dubious about comically inept? If not, we seem to agree. Sorry about that.

The rest of your post is about his father.

 

[Patine]

Again, I am really not.

Because I tend to not blame someone for what his or her family had done.

A question. Although I have already said both of them lack the toxic charisma and vitriolic, incendiary populism in their personalities to be true heirs to "Trumpism," and are almost just hype in such a role, meaningfully, do you give the same benefit of the doubt in the statement I just quoted to Don Trump, Jr. and Ivanka Trump, who are commonly brought up as, "heirs apparent?" This is NOT a "gotcha," question - I'm not at all invested in either of them, personally - just seeing where, and how far, you're stated values go.

 

[Birdjaguar]

As I said, I am not making an accusation, and there is not proof, but there is evidence.

What evidence?

 

[Patine]

What evidence?

Not only was there the timing (and the previous, recent, acrimonious Republican Primaries in 1980), the father of the attempted assassin had apparently lived for a time in a ranch in Midland County, Texas, and had had some shared interests in the area with the Bushes, and were alleged to be friends. Again, definitely not proof, but something that could lead to suspicions...

 

[Lexicus]

Kind of amazing that "Trump is a fascist" is evidently total hyperbole that warrants an immediate scolding but "HW Bush tried to have Reagan killed" is totally plausible

 

[mitsho]

A question. Although I have already said both of them lack the toxic charisma and vitriolic, incendiary populism in their personalities to be true heirs to "Trumpism," and are almost just hype in such a role, meaningfully, do you give the same benefit of the doubt in the statement I just quoted to Don Trump, Jr. and Ivanka Trump, who are commonly brought up as, "heirs apparent?" This is NOT a "gotcha," question - I'm not at all invested in either of them, personally - just seeing where, and how far, you're stated values go.

The big difference here though is time and direct involvment. Ivanka is a part of his administration and Don Trump Jr. runs the business and by that way is also still heavily involved with his father. But Barron Trump however is simply not responsible for anything here.

So no, they are not responsible for what Donald Trump does, only for what they let him do. It‘s a big ask for every son or daughter to tell their father they are not allowed to drive the car anymore - if you fail to do it when the time has come, you‘re responsible as well.

Again, I don‘t think the two situations are comparable (also, they are hypothetical, so...) - and now I‘m going to watch football.

 

[Patine]

Kind of amazing that "Trump is a fascist" is evidently total hyperbole that warrants an immediate scolding but "HW Bush tried to have Reagan killed" is totally plausible

For the third time (please read!) I am not making an accusation or saying there is solid proof. Do we understand, here?

 

[RobAnybody]

Ah, the classic Glenn Beck defense. Only slightly less effective than the Chewbacca defense.