2020 US Election (Part One)

[Estebonrober]

You speak for yourself only.

Yea pretty clearly so, I know where you are coming from, its going to be real to hold my nose and vote for a kleptocrat.

 

[Commodore]

I don't know how the pledged delegates of candidates who drop out get reallocated,

You know, I don't know how they get reallocated either. Seems the fair thing to do would be to pledge them to the candidate still in the race that got the highest number of votes in the state a particular delegate comes from.

 

[Arwon]

You know, I don't know how they get reallocated either. Seems the fair thing to do would be to pledge them to the candidate still in the race that got the highest number of votes in the state a particular delegate comes from.

If I had to guess I bet it varies by state - ie in some places the candidate can re-pledge them, in some states they're free agents, in some states they're re-allocated by some formula or similar mechanism by the state party. Curious to know tho.

 

[Zardnaar]

I would vote for Bloomberg over Trump but would vote Sanders or Warren if I was American.

At the worst Bloomberg is kind if Clinton 2.0 and the party can reign him in anyway.

Assuming Sanders wins the nomination then in November not much will change anytime soon.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Delegates of dropped out candidates either vote for the candidate that the 'quitter' then endorsed, or they are 'uncommitted' and can vote for whoever they want, like a super delegate.

https://people.howstuffworks.com/primary2.htm

 

[Estebonrober]

I would vote for Bloomberg over Trump but would vote Sanders or Warren if I was American.

At the worst Bloomberg is kind if Clinton 2.0 and the party can reign him in anyway.

Assuming Sanders wins the nomination then in November not much will change anytime soon.

Its the whole billionaire running government thing, its disgusting viscerally.

 

[Berzerker]

Regarding Bloomberg, I cant believe the courts didn't knock down 'stop and frisk' as a violation of the 4th Amendment. But Trump apparently supported the policy so he cant use it against Bloomberg if he's the nominee.

 

[Ajidica]

I think this is exactly what happened with Warren. She got excited when she tied/passed Biden and thought "OK now its time to tack towards the center to pick up moderates"... she was labelled a flip-flopper, and the bottom promptly fell out of her support.

I disagree. She is suffering a bad case of the Marco Rubio - everybody’s second choice, nobody’s first choice. Apart from a little bit of “clarification” on health care she has in many ways been the opposite of a flip flopper.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

And her clarification was a tweak rather than a whole sale sell out but it's been portrayed as such nonetheless.

 

[Berzerker]

she's stuck in the middle of Sanders and the moderates...and running a bad campaign

 

[IglooDame]

she's stuck in the middle of Sanders and the moderates...and running a bad campaign

Elaborate on the latter, please? According to everything I've seen, the mechanics of her campaign are relatively solid, so I assume that's not what you are referring to.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Buttigieg's lead in Iowa was reduced to 0.004% after a recanvasing, and now Bernie has requested a recount.

 

[Estebonrober]

And her clarification was a tweak rather than a whole sale sell out but it's been portrayed as such nonetheless.

Now now, that tweak included not pushing for single payer until her third year which is basically conceding that you are not going to do single payer. That is how she lost me, because I consider a human rights travesty, an economic nightmare for businesses, and 21st century form of indentured servitude to bad employment. In short its the most pressing issue of our time.

Regarding Bloomberg, I cant believe the courts didn't knock down 'stop and frisk' as a violation of the 4th Amendment. But Trump apparently supported the policy so he cant use it against Bloomberg if he's the nominee.

Hahahahaha I mean I know you you know this won't stop him so why say this?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Now now, that tweak included not pushing for single payer until her third year which is basically conceding that you are not going to do single payer. That is how she lost me, because I consider a human rights travesty, an economic nightmare for businesses, and 21st century form of indentured servitude to bad employment. In short its the most pressing issue of our time.

So recognizing that a complete overhaul of the system has to happen in steps is tantamount to defeat and flip flopping?

 

[Berzerker]

Elaborate on the latter, please? According to everything I've seen, the mechanics of her campaign are relatively solid, so I assume that's not what you are referring to.

She cant win the left cuz Bernie's over there and the center is being fought over by 2-3 candidates. That doesn't leave her much of a slice of the spectrum and she's just not that good at campaigning.

Hahahahaha I mean I know you you know this won't stop him so why say this?

You might be right, he has little or no shame. But most people do instinctively recoil at the stench of hypocrisy and Trump lost any moral high ground on that issue by supporting stop and frisk. Course the other side of the story is stop and frisk may have played a role in cutting crime since people knew carrying a weapon could get them in trouble. Priorities... I suspect most people wouldn't mind violating the rights of others if it did reduce crime.

 

[Takhisis]

I like how Berzerker still claims not to be a Republican but hamfistedly implies that Bernie Sanders is a political extremist.

I disagree. She is suffering a bad case of the Marco Rubio - everybody’s second choice, nobody’s first choice. Apart from a little bit of “clarification” on health care she has in many ways been the opposite of a flip flopper.

They do say that women have smaller hands than men.

 

[Kyriakos]

But...but...but...the USA are special! All these nice things won't work there because..., well because!


Regarding the plurality argument: In a democratic system, someone receiving a plurality usually needs to build a coalition to get a majority. If Sanders gets a plurality, he should have the first opportunity to secure a majority for him. But if he fails to do so and someone else does, it is still a legitimate election. Receiving a plurality should never make you the automatic winner.

You are thinking of party vs party. In systems for choosing the party leader, usually it is either simple plurality or some stages of FPTP, with the latter also leading to plurality turning into a majority.
In the recent case of choosing the most scummy leader for the tories, it was elimination in each round, with the two last ones head to head. Like the (presidential, ie party vs party in practice) elections in France. Obviously in multi-party countries you rarely see one party get over 50% of the vote.

 

[Estebonrober]

So recognizing that a complete overhaul of the system has to happen in steps is tantamount to defeat and flip flopping?

Pass in one law, implement in steps, you break up the passing you'll never get back to it. . ./stares back at the public option. . .

 

[cardgame]

I can't parse what you just wrote, but I do agree with the overall sentiment. Incremental changes are easier subject to rollbacks.

 

[Berzerker]

I like how Berzerker still claims not to be a Republican but hamfistedly implies that Bernie Sanders is a political extremist.

I didn't say (or imply) he was an extremist, I said he's left - left of Warren. Now if this was between just her and Sanders she'd probably beat him but she has 2-3 people to her right sucking up that oxygen. Do you think Bernie's a left winger?