Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by tom2050, Jul 2, 2010.
Man that is a lot change. Did you have anyone testing other than yourself?
All changes were mostly based on input from beta. I could only go on the testing others provided from that, as well as myself. Although the list looks vast, it's not quite as vast as it looks. Much of the work was finishing the civilopedia, graphics, and balancing tech and unit costs. Alot of the changes which Increased or Decreased something were not huge drastic changes, but more-or-less small adjustments. I brought alot of the base things (such as terraforming) back closer to Civ 3 original standards, which works better.
In testing, no civ appears to always get stomped. So although each has it's own distinct flavor, each game, depending on the AI's decisions, show the different civ's doing good and fairly even.
Since the big download contains pretty much everything now, over time any other balance changes can continue to be made to the BIQ.
* Playing a Large Map is recommended over the Huge Map choice if you want a quicker game. Game speeds are alot faster.
Downloading. I'll try to get some time to play it tomorrow.
Great! Hopefully I'll have some time to download and try this out tonight. The beta was fun, so looking forward to this a lot, especially the AI artillery attacks.
Hey, I just dl'd this and so far this looks really good and is really refreshing as far as something new goes. One comment though: The turn times seem to increase really quickly, especially in the early stages of the game.
I'll get back to ya if I come across any other oddities, but this looks great.
Glad you are enjoying it!
The Huge Sized Map (which is 165x165 IIRC) option will give much faster times than the Epic Sized Map (really big) option. So this may be the reason if you are playing the Epic sized map.
Possibly stupid question - how do I use a spell like Bloodlust? I've tried looking for upgrade icon in a city with a castle, with and without a wolf raider present. Tried again after getting fire magic 1, still nothing. Little help?
You may not have enough gold to upgrade the bloodlust. To build bloodlust spell, you need the Tomb of Fire Magic resource. If you obtained a bloodlust spell from a creature (such as the Ogre Mage), then you only need enough gold to upgrade it.
I may need to scale down the amount of gold things cost... because it will probably cost around a few hundred gold to upgrade. Initially in earlier versions, you were able to easily bring in hundreds/thousands of gold per turn; although I think you still can bring in a big chunk if you scale back your research for a turn or 2.
The bloodlust spell upgrades (if you are stronghold) into a "Wolf Raider (Bloodlusted)". This guy has +1 attack over normal Wolf Raiders.
Let me know if this helps!
that did it - thanks!
Love the mod. I would say that bloodlust upgrade cost is more than I would expect, simply because it feels like it should be free-ish, like legion units. Other upgrade costs seem ok so far - haven't played enough to speak intellegently
You are right - in beta upgrades were way too cheap, now they are too expensive. I have started a new game with non-beta and it seems my stack of Regenerated Trolls will remain unupgraded - I prefer to have a few units less than to be one (or more) techs back...
I am not sure if making some Small Wonders obsolete is a good idea. I went the Leadership path after discovering Intelligence. I have not discovered Offense yet but I guess a proper SW will be obsolete - so no more cheaper upgrades? No more veteran units after Tactics, when Castle gets obsolete (IIRC)?
Certain small wonders go obsolete only in certain situations. If you research all the way through to the end of the Might tech tree, you will still have all the capabilities of all the Might small wonders... but some of the Magic small wonders will be obsoleted. If you research all the way through to the end of the Magic tech tree, some of the Might small wonders will be obsoleted.
Might civilizations will be powerful in might oriented abilities. Magic civilizations will be powerful in magic oriented abilities. If you research both trees, you will lose some abilities of the small wonders in both, but will still be a force to be reckoned with.
It makes it a choice, rather than simply researching all of it. It's a pro/con type thing.
Cheaper upgrades only goes obsolete if you research Wisdom That sounds like it doesn't make any sense, but Wisdom is Magic oriented.
Castles never go obsolete, so you can always get veteran units. Tactics makes City Hall and Mage Guild V go obsolete. Mage Guild V isn't incredibly powerful, gives happy face, reduce corruption and produces a spell. City Hall provides increased taxes, but losing both of those pales in comparison to increased output of railroads and 0 movement. Otherwise Magic side would be pointless to ever research.
On the opposite side, going for Magic first gives some nice benefits. You can eventually get a variety of 'transport' spells; air units which act as helicopter and air transport. Spells (air bombardment and charm bombardment) can make a big difference, and you can greatly increase tech research, and the most powerful tome spells of the game (if you can find a resource).
The upgrade cost will be reduced, I agree it is too high in some cases.
O.K., I understand. Researching Might up to Tactics makes a Civ stronger and more productive, researching Magic speeds up research and gives access to some sophisticated units and researching AB enables a sort of space race victory.
And is hardly buildable at Continents type maps (usually at least one resource required for some level of MG is at the other continent).
Yes, Tome spells are incredibly powerful - if used correctly, they may produce a lot of free Magic Arrows.
Edit: two changes I like the most are immobile but strong Barbarians providing Artillery units and non-buildable Settlers. Mobile Barbarians were very painful, especially for civs with weak Lvl 1 units, and were very dangerous for Scouts. Settlers autoproduced by Palace make Agricultural trait nice but not as imbalanced as it used to be. Now early expansion is linear instead of exponential.
I have finished this game - in fact, it was the first COTM game I could be able to finish (the Beta ones hanged at turn 255). I played at Skilled, as Neutral. I have a few extra comments.
1. It turned out I was not able to upgrade any Regeneration Trolls, even when I had a few thousand GP. Maybe a bug, or perhaps I missed some resource (e.g. a Legion one)?
2. Espionage costs are way too high. In Beta I could easily steal technologies, e.g. when I was researching some cheap tech at minimal cost required to discover it in 5 turns I was able to get money required to steal some other tech. Perhaps it was too cheap but now the cost of the most risky mission was about 18k GP.
3. Perhaps VP victory is too easy. I was playing Large (IIRC) Continents and I hit 60k VP limit before I was able to conquer entire continent, at turn 390+. I think the limit should be raised to at least 80k but I think 100k would be too much.
Thank You for the input.
1. Yes its a bug.
3. I thought it may have been too low.
I'll adjust the high upgrade costs of some of the units to work better with the current setup as well. I'll get a new BIQ posted sometime soon with these and other minor fixes I have caught.
Have to research Navigation to trade between continents (Shipyard), or build airports (Castle Gate, Escape Tunnel, or City Spell Tower). I suppose the problem exists if the resources are not there to build these, but only Escape Tunnel and Castle Gate need resources.
Shipyard and City Spell Tower require no resources to build.
You obtained settlers from the barbarian artillery units? Or you obtained settlers from goody huts? Getting one from a goody hut can make a big difference. It makes expansionist civ's quite useful.
I meant Settlers cannot be built in cities, they are autobuilt by Palace.
Yes, indeed - even it means only one extra city per game. Non-expansionist civs usually get a few angry but immobile Barbarians...
The problem is that when I am able to get to the other continent, there is no room to settle. And even when a rival civ has Shipyards or airports, usually it has no spare strategic resources to trade. In the mentioned game I was not able to get Mercury at all.
I have to say this is one of the best mods that I have played, congratulations.
One question re Fortress buildings, is it possible to build the upgraded Lizard Den? It does not seem to appear in the city's build list. Looking at the Civilopedia.txt it appears to require itself as a prerequisite and also does not appear in the Allows section of the standard Lizard Den.
Once again, this is a superb piece of work.
I tried to make those 4 resources not overwhelmingly abundant; yet not too rare (Crystal, Mercury, Sulfur, and Gems). I tried to make it so they wouldn't necessarily be available to everyone in bunches. Wood and Ore are around in enough quantity that those should be easily acquired in most circumstances.
They may be in too low of quantity, I'll check. But what better a reason to go to war, then to nab a mercury!
Welcome to CFC! And Thank You for your kind words.
Initially I had an Upgraded Lizard Den in the game; but had to remove all Level 1 and Level 2 upgraded structures for a couple reasons:
1) The game has a 256 improvement limit, and I was running out of slots.
2) Reports of too many Level 1 and Level 2 units on the map, which made the game reach the 8192 unit limit way too fast (although the EXE patch for this is included in the download).
I left the civilopedia txt entry in there, because when I continue making the scenarios, I will include these buildings (but you are right, it won't require itself! ); they just couldn't fit due to game engine issues into the epic game.
So I do not complain - I regard it as a feature-not-a-bug.
If I REALLY needed it, I would. But I prefer to go to war for better reasons, e.g. to grab Grail resource
BTW: some upgrade costs are way too high. I can understand 278 g for upgrade from Vampire to Vampire Lord but 100g for upgrade from a Skeleton to a Skeleton Warrior Necro?
Hi. Looks like a great mod you got here! I downloaded it from AtomicGamer, and placed both files in the scenario directory, but when I try to run the game, I get this message:
I'm using Civ3 Complete with conquests 1.22 update. Please help me! I am a long time HoMM fan and I would love to try out your mod!
Hello LionoftheNorth, welcome to CFC!
Often, the problem is that the unzip / unrar program creates a duplicate directory.
Once unrared, the path should look like similar to this:
if you have instead Scenarios/COMM3/COMM3/(Art,_Extras,Text,etc) then a duplicate folder was created and the (Art,_Extras,Text,etc) folders need to be copied to the first COMM3 directory.
Let me know if this is the problem!
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