Show me your orders/battle plans!

To members of the human species, such rule complications merely make moding harder and less fesable, resulting in longer waits for updates and lower quality.
I presume most people here are capable of performing basic algebra. If you would like to claim that doing so is beyond the capabilities of most humans to be found on this forum, I find your statement of trust in people to be highly suspect.

Modeled and modeled well? Maybe so, but easy? I think not.
Again, prove it. I am still waiting on whatever proof it is you have that points to this unerring conclusion that complexity is impossible for any entity short of HAL9000 to deal with.

Why do you think the old timers pine for the NESes of yore?
Because they've become more or less irrelevent in the new environment, and thereby the community as a whole, and for a fair number of them saying more than "Grow economy" is anathema? Times change, and they either can't or won't deal with it? Nothing's stopping them for recreating that environment if they want to, but it's nobody else's fault if they're frustrated by their inability to wind the clock back for everybody else too.

Here is the fundamental difference between us: I trust humans, you trust computers. [...] Basically, it would seem, you are arguing to remove the story and the humanity from the Never Ending Story and replace it with pure game and computation. This is something I will always be against, and that is the most important reason why these overly complicated rule systems you develop are not superior to the mod-based system.
You're not making assumptions, hrm? How interesting. Would you like to add some more condescension and derision to your replies? I really do quite enjoy being talked down to by a teenager.

Look at the recent delays in updates, notably by Thlayli and Iggy. Is it because it takes so long to write? No, it isn't. The updates aren't more than a few dozen pages in Microsoft Word, usually far less. For all the much that that sounds to be, it really isn't very much at all. It's because coming to resolutions on matters is difficult. Writing a sentence or two or even a paragraph about them is easy. The more delineated major actions are in their resolution, the easier they are to come up with the solutions to. Streamlining the decision process means the moderator spends less time quibbling over what happens and instead has more time to flesh it out and write, which, if you'll forgive me, was the heart of what a Never Ending Story was about last I heard.
 
I presume most people here are capable of performing basic algebra. If you would like to claim that doing so is beyond the capabilities of most humans to be found on this forum, I find your statement of trust in people to be highly suspect.
No, I know most, nay, all, people on this forum are capable of basic algebra. The problem is is that as a mod such computations simply add to the time it takes to do an update and distract from the more important functions of a mod, writing a storyline and carrying the NES forward.
Again, prove it. I am still waiting on whatever proof it is you have that points to this unerring conclusion that complexity is impossible for any entity short of HAL9000 to deal with.
Again, the complexity in and of itself is not impossible, but rather the fact that it adds more time and effort to the updating process. Also, I am still waiting for proof that the complexity doesn't detract from the updating. If you to someone else manages to mod a successful NES using these mathematically based and overcomplicated rule systems of yours, then I will reconsider your assertions based on proof. Until then, you have nothing to show me.
Because they've become more or less irrelevent in the new environment, and thereby the community as a whole, and for a fair number of them saying more than "Grow economy" is anathema?
They are still definately relavent, and here's proof for you: das. While, as you may know, I am not the fondest person of old timer reminiscence and, in particular, derision of modern NESing, I will adimantly point out that they have experience that you do not in seeing the evolution of NESing and the differences between the experience of old style NESing and new style NESing. They can attest to whether or not there were serious advantages to the simplicity and story base of old NESes from experience that neither you nor I have.
You're not making assumptions, hrm? How interesting. Would you like to add some more condescension and derision to your replies? I really do quite enjoy being talked down to by a teenager.
I was merely trying to bring us to the base of the argument rather than continuing to argue on particular instances and surface disagreements as these debates normally do. Additionally, I really don't see how I am being derisive. I am attempting to talk to you on an equal basis, but apparently you have a latent ageism that prevents it. If it really pains you so much to talk to those younger than you on an equal basis, I suggest you leave this forum, as most of the people here are teenagers, as I am sure you know.
Look at the recent delays in updates, notably by Thlayli and Iggy. Is it because it takes so long to write? No, it isn't. The updates aren't more than 20 pages in Microsoft Word, usually far less. For all the much that that sounds to be, it really isn't very much at all. It's because coming to resolutions on matters is difficult. Writing a sentence or two or even a paragraph about them is easy. The more delineated major actions are in their resolution, the easier they are to come up with the solutions to. Streamlining the decision process means the moderator spends less time quibbling over what happens and instead has more time to flesh it out and write, which, if you'll forgive me, was the heart of what a Never Ending Story was about last I heard.
Actually, from my own experience with writing extraordinarily longly delayed updates, what takes the longest is, in fact, the writing and the research that goes into the writing. Deciding events should take a few days, but translating decisions into writing is a lot harder than you make it out to be. And yes, if you are going to write crap then it doesn't take any time at all to write 20 pages, but if you are going to write a quality update that fleshes out events and creates a drama and story to everything, then it takes much longer. I remember once have to sort through twenty some sets of orders and more than that number in NPCs. Actually deciding events wasn't the problem, it was writing about it and fleshing it out. Furthermore, mathematical forumlas would not have helped in the least in deciding things. I would never have been satisfied simply plugging in numbers and calculating results. I would have tweaked it, though of a thousand reasons why the mathematical formula wasn't exactly appropriate for each situation, and ended up throwing it out and starting from scratch. Human judgement is key to moding, and by using mathematical formulas you remove that element, thus transforming the Never Ending Story from a human driven, artistic endeavor into a calculator based computer game.

My apologies for the long rambling, but it is very late (well, early) where I am and I am kind of out of it. Also, I apologize if it comes off like I am "talking down to you," that is not intentional, as I assume the blatant sarcasm and disrespect I at first thought I read into your post is. Now, on that note, I hope you can agree to recognise that this is a civil debate and that ageist namecalling, "talking down," and the like are not appropriate and to keep such out of the discussion from here on out.
 
In the interests of reducing pollution of this thread, my response is here.
 
My pet peeve is the general hyper-advancing of technology and ideas in general. I mean, honestly, why do people NEVER rest until they get into the Iron Age? There were dozens of huge empires that existed in the Bronze Age; Iron isn't even that much better than Bronze, anyway, just cheaper. Bronze Age empires, for all of their faults, are fascinating. Then we have the rush to gunpowder, and the rush to find every other continent in the bloody world. Seriously, folks, why must you find more and more and more land? Why not develop what you have? Sending out massive resources to visit far off lands isn't feasible, usually...
I agree. Which is why I waited until the Tin Route collapsed in JalNES to start talking about the Iron Age...
 
Nope!
 
I don't recall ever starting a colony anywhere. (In fact, when I was Spain in NES2 IV, I think I kicked off decolonization really quickly to concentrate on Europe.) It's just a pain in the butt - an excessively large amount of military force is required to protect a relatively low earning territory that loads of other people want to capture.
 
I presume most people here are capable of performing basic algebra. If you would like to claim that doing so is beyond the capabilities of most humans to be found on this forum, I find your statement of trust in people to be highly suspect.

Symphony, I know how to do algebra... but that doesn't mean I want to do it for every bloody update. Call me lazy if you want, but I'd rather update normally than introduce a dozen formulas to quantify every thing in the thread.

Because they've become more or less irrelevent in the new environment, and thereby the community as a whole, and for a fair number of them saying more than "Grow economy" is anathema? Times change, and they either can't or won't deal with it? Nothing's stopping them for recreating that environment if they want to, but it's nobody else's fault if they're frustrated by their inability to wind the clock back for everybody else too.

This is pure BS. Old-timers are not "irrelevant" in today's community; you're dreaming if you think so. Just because you don't like the older rules doesn't mean everyone doesn't.

Most people came here for the options and flexibility that simpler rules allow, the idea that someone with a sentient brain is operating, not just a set of numbers behind a facade of flashy graphics. It is supremely arrogant to think that the old times are mostly worthless, just as arrogant as saying that quantitative rules shouldn't be implemented into an NES.

A middle ground between the ideas of a game and that of a story can, and must, be found... And we already have it. Hiding behind walls of redundant rules, and silly ideas, to be sure, but it is there nonetheless. All we need to do is take out the bad, put in some good, and go from there.

Look at the recent delays in updates, notably by Thlayli and Iggy. Is it because it takes so long to write? No, it isn't. The updates aren't more than a few dozen pages in Microsoft Word, usually far less. For all the much that that sounds to be, it really isn't very much at all. It's because coming to resolutions on matters is difficult. Writing a sentence or two or even a paragraph about them is easy. The more delineated major actions are in their resolution, the easier they are to come up with the solutions to. Streamlining the decision process means the moderator spends less time quibbling over what happens and instead has more time to flesh it out and write, which, if you'll forgive me, was the heart of what a Never Ending Story was about last I heard.

From what I could tell, those were primarily due to time constraints and a lowering of scheduling standards. In my NESes, I had as much writing, and stats as complicated, with situations which were just as twisty, and I usually didn't take as long as it seems to nowadays. The facts are that we're just more accepting of slowness than we were back then; it's not that humans are overwhelmed by a decision making process. My modding experience tells me that it's easy to decide what happened, but less easy to decide how it happened.
 
NOPE!
Anyway here is old orders from ITnes.

Spoiler :
Holy Tarunist Empire of Greater Nordrike
Capital: Vikborg
Ruler: Holy Emperor of the Western Tarunist Church Magnus V the Great (or the Dark, or the Nortubane)/emu
Government (Efficiency): Absolute Monarchy (Feudal Monarchy in Svearland) (Improving)
Tech. Level: Early Medieval Age
Army (Quality): 54 thousands (Mighty), 24 Berserkir Guard thousands, 7 levy thousands
Navy (Quality): 111 ships (Mighty)
Economy (Points): Growing (3) (2 banked)
Trade: 2
Size (Points Required): Above Medium (3)
Infrastructure: Improving (2/3)
Education: Literate
Prestige: Acceptable
Confidence: Admiring
Projects:

Orders:
1 econ point on logistics.
1 econ point on army training.
1 econ point on navy training.
2 econ point on army recruitment (10 thousands recruited in Caledonia among Loyal Tarunists).
1 econ point on navy building.
(The other banked econ point shouldn’t be in the stats)

Send missionaries to Caledonia, Iceni, Cernosia and Wenedia.

Send agents to the franks in Northern Gaul to try and incite them to revolt against the Gaelic heretics.

Military:

I know we have 5 thousands in Jutland and 5 thousands in Finland (the other 5 headed north and there is only 2 thousands left there I believe).

(Bare with me for a moment)
-According to my last orders I sent 48 thousands and 20 Berserkir thousands to Caledonia.
-Casualties were 6 thousands, 3 berserkir thousands and 4 levy thousands.
-42 thousands 17 berserkir thousands currently in Caledonia. I think the army make-up will be as such: 10 thousand heavy cavalry, 10-12 thousand archers 20 thousand infantry (half will be armed with pikes, Think Swiss pikemen, the rest swordsmen I suppose).
-The Highland levies will most likely be armed with pikes (swords) and favour the Schiltron formation, purely defensive in nature.

-The new recruits gathered in Caledonia should be Light horsemen armed with javelins or bows (to justify our use of this, say we purchased various personal accounts of battles with steppe people).
The others that were recruited in Nordrike will be Pikemen and catapults they will be transported over evetunally, but I doubt they will be read for the last Caledonian battle.

-If the Caledonians descend into guerrilla warfare, it is imperative we draw them out, target High King Crinan friendly villages and towns, burning them and their crops, we must do all we can to force them into a pitched, perhaps the proud elite Galloglaigh will work to our advantage, if we target their feudal lands or even the capital they may decide they must fight.

Tactics:

-If and when we force the Caledonians into a pitched battle, we will use or newly recruited Light Horse Javeliners/Horsearchers to quickly surround the enemy army. Using concentrated fire (javelins, arrows not actual fire) to force Caledonians in a small space where their lines and formations will become confused.

-The Galloglaigh being proud feudal lords may grow restless and try and drive off their tormentors (others also may also try), if this happens the horsemen they chase will whittle their numbers down, while leading them to the waiting jaws of our Berserkir and Heavy cavalry contingents.

-When the enemy begin to tire, we will offer them a way out of the trap, some of the Light horsemen will wheel off and join the other horsemen on the flanks. The archers we have will begin firing at the rear of enemy (the part that faces the unguarded flank)


-The enemy should take the bait and begin moving in that direction hoping to reform their lines. Gaps will form and formations will inevitability begin breaking.
The Heavy Cavalry will now charge the enemy down, followed by the Berserkirs. As the pikemen and highland levies move to cut off any fleeing men.

Looks good to me.

If they actually have the audacity to use chariots we really should be able to counter them.

Aftermath:

-If the Battle is won, the Highland levies may return to protect their homes.
-The Light Horsemen will move ahead of the army causing fires (to confuse people to whereabouts of the army) and attacking Brigantean settlements.

-The army must assault the cities relying on incendiaries to burn out the levies guarding the walls, followed by a Berserkir assault to open the gate for the rest of army.

-Once inside we will kill the majority, the Briganteans will serve as an example to any, who when offered a chance to side with Nordrike refuse. Those we don’t kill we will use for military purposes (Like I did when I was the Franks).

-If we have time the army will begin making headways into Iceni, offering cities the chance to surrender, we will use 1000 men from these cities as levies to bolster the army, although we will use these levies as fodder in battle.

-Regarding the Highlanders, we will offer them the ability to form their own laws (quite similar to the jarls in Svearland) and rule of much of Caledonia, though I want Brigantean lands and the southern port city I currently control, to form the Personal land of the High King of Caledonia (another title yay).
If they are hell bent on getting full autonomy, then I will have to make a map up later and come up with the conditions (basically making them a vassal), although if they want that I am basically going to genocide the lot of em once I’m finished in Iceni, don’t tell them that though.

Naval stuff

-All ships currently working in the North Sea will team up (+the 10 ships I just created, so 100 ships) and begin travelling along the coast of Caledonia (they will stop to pick 3 thousand berserkirs, with the 7 berserkirs already on the fleet will have 10).

-The aim of the fleet is to stop any attempts made by the solists in Nortugal to try and re-enforce the Caledonia position in its own country.

-If the solists have not made a move to help Caledonia, by landing an army in Caledonia, they are to send a message to the Nortuguese, asking for the whereabouts of the Solist and Nortuguese fleet and how they can help.

-When we have the positions of both fleets, we should try and co-ordinate our efforts with the Nortuguese, although our strength lies in berserkir assaults on ships so we should maximise that advantage.

-The ships currently in the Baltic will take over the supplying of the Caledonian invasion force, so 20 ships moving around the North Sea.
 
.
You're not making assumptions, hrm? How interesting. Would you like to add some more condescension and derision to your replies? I really do quite enjoy being talked down to by a teenager.
Don't let anyone think little of you because you are young.
1 Timothy 4:12​

If I am young and wrong, then you are right [to look down on my youthful ignorance.] But if I am young and right, what does my age matter?
Aesculus, Antigone​

Look at the recent delays in updates, notably by Thlayli and Iggy. Is it because it takes so long to write? No, it isn't. The updates aren't more than a few dozen pages in Microsoft Word, usually far less. For all the much that that sounds to be, it really isn't very much at all. It's because coming to resolutions on matters is difficult. Writing a sentence or two or even a paragraph about them is easy. The more delineated major actions are in their resolution, the easier they are to come up with the solutions to. Streamlining the decision process means the moderator spends less time quibbling over what happens and instead has more time to flesh it out and write, which, if you'll forgive me, was the heart of what a Never Ending Story was about last I heard.

Actually, Iggy's last one was 14 Word pages single spaced and without unneeded formatting problems(like no lines between paragraphs, etc.) I printed it out and took it to school to read.
 
Don't let anyone think little of you because you are young.
1 Timothy 4:12​

If I am young and wrong, then you are right [to look down on my youthful ignorance.] But if I am young and right, what does my age matter?
Aesculus, Antigone​
In the interests of reducing pollution of this thread, my response is here.
Two problems:

1.) You didn't read. That discussion is over here. Wrong topic.
2.) You didn't read. I am five years older. That's such a huge age gap. It's totally ageism when I'm not even quite two years beyond being a teenager myself. Yeah, you got me, I'm just a complete dick. I wasn't just reinforcing my point that acting like you got a chip on your shoulder doesn't play well with anybody and is really stereotypical.

A+ for effort, C- for substance. Thank you.
 
Two problems:

1.) You didn't read. That discussion is over here. Wrong topic.
2.) You didn't read. I am five years older. That's such a huge age gap. It's totally ageism when I'm not even quite two years beyond being a teenager myself. Yeah, you got me, I'm just a complete dick. I wasn't just reinforcing my point that acting like you got a chip on your shoulder doesn't play well with anybody and is really stereotypical.

A+ for effort, C- for substance. Thank you.
My G-d, you are a jerk. We were merely trying to have a discussion with you on the same level, but you resort to ageist language, and then rather than appologize politely and move past the issue like a decent person, you come back with bitter retorts and make the emotional divide bigger. I specifically asked for you to stop using such abbrasive language and to act civily. Now, if you will simply appologize for your language, I will be happy to accept it and I am sure Swiss will also. I will also be happy to appologize for any role I had in the escalation of the language.
 
I don't need an apology, i'm not offended. I was just trying to pull out some quotes i had on my hard drive.

I wasn't trying to insinuate you were ageist at all Symph, I was merely pointing out that if Israelite was right or even if he is argueing and has not yet lost, his age shouldn't be a factor.

An A+ and a C- is still a 3.0 GPA, Swiss is going to college :king:
 
I don't recall ever starting a colony anywhere. (In fact, when I was Spain in NES2 IV, I think I kicked off decolonization really quickly to concentrate on Europe.) It's just a pain in the butt - an excessively large amount of military force is required to protect a relatively low earning territory that loads of other people want to capture.

I agree. Colonization is a pain. It requires too much investment compared to the profit, people love to rebel in it, and in the long term, it is likely not going to be yours unless it is near your core regions. That is why, as the HRE, I focused pretty much solely on Europe.

Though, annexing colonial powers usually gave me alot of territory.
 
My G-d, you are a jerk. We were merely trying to have a discussion with you on the same level, but you resort to ageist language, and then rather than appologize politely and move past the issue like a decent person, you come back with bitter retorts and make the emotional divide bigger. I specifically asked for you to stop using such abbrasive language and to act civily.
There. Right there. This is exactly what I am talking about

I have already explained my word choice, explained my phraseology, and explained that I do not appreciate that exact tone right there. And yet I get the Don Imus treatment of the same exact argument repeated over again, rather than having any of my points addressed, and my efforts to shift the topic to a location where it is not spam are ignored.

I should apologize for my language? Excuse me, I don't remember at any point calling you a jerk or some other such epithet. Perhaps you should be the one apologizing. I have tried to be civil. I answered your comments very cordially in the While We Wait thread. It is not my fault you chose to post right after them and did not acknowledge a single word I said, and instead have decided to continue this here, or that you are opposed to conducting discussion in a more suitable topic instead of polluting this fine thread.

Your remarks about civility are rather off key. I have nothing further to say on this issue and given your behavior, I'm not apologizing to you for anything. Swiss, if I came off as harsh, my apologies, I just wanted to save this thread from further off topic discussion.
 
Please guys, don't we have better things to argue about?

Lord_Iggy said:
Economy
1 Point to training new normal soldiers.
1 Point to building new ships.

If I overspent, cut back on the ships.

If I underspent, spend the rest of my economy on improving army training.

Domestic
My leader is now King Nyr, commander of the Nubian campaign in the last update.

Continue the cultural integration of Tyre. The Tyrians are legal equals in my nation, and cultures should be melting together.

Encourage trade through the port of Tyre, trade should pick up again now that the war's done and the area has stabilized.

Foreign
Sign peace with Nubia. They will withdraw from Eur and accept a 1 EP gift from them, and I will peacefully withdraw back to prewar borders.

Military
My navy will work to kill off any pirates and keep trade routes clear, to help the development of my naval trade.

5 Hundred normal troops will guard my border with Nubia and the Sinai Area. Keep alert for any possible (though unlikely) betrayals.

200 will be spread through my nation for defense (militia will be called for if I am attacked).

The rest of my army and all of my Scythed Chariots are to campaign along the eastern coast of the Red Sea, conquering other Arabian tribes (our cultures are very similar, so assimilation should not be hard).

Also, blob expand eastwards from my current lands, civilize the tribes on my borders and absorb them, with some military force if necessary.

Happy updating!

Stats
Nation Name: Zyle
Capital: Aras
Ruler: King Ilas
Government (Efficiency): Monarchy (Incompetent)
Culture: Zylian, small Nubian minority
Tech. Level: Middle Bronze Age
Army (Quality): 1 Hundreds (Normal) 3 Scythed Chariot Hundreds
Navy (Quality): 8 Ships (Poor)
Economy (Points): Growing (+1)
Trade: 0
Size (Points Required): Small (+1)
Infrastructure: Dirt Paths
Education: Dumb
Prestige: Tolerable
Confidence: Tolerating
Projects:
Nation Background: Having migrated up from the Arabian peninsula generations ago, the people of Zyle have lived through many different situations, from peace and prosperity to war and conquest.
 
:bump: The third turn in BirdNES, when I was fighting Egypt.
Spoiler :
Portugal/Perfectionist
Population: 3/0 Homeland/Colonies
Available Spending: 4 (1)
(4/1/1) Economy/Culture/National Confidence
(1/0/0) Leadership: Civilian/Military/Colonial
Education (0)
Infrastructure (0)
Religion (+1, +1) Economy/Culture
Trade Routes: 3
Religious Centers 0
Trading Centers 2
Economic Freedom: 3
Government Control: 3
Net Economic Freedom: 0
Nation Information:
Voyages of Discovery: NWE, MED, WCA, ECA, IOS
Army/Navy Size: 0 divisions/9 squadrons
Army/Navy Quality: Recruits/ Recruits
Colonies
DIPLOMATIC AGREEMENTS:
1) Trade agreement with Vijayanagar
2) Trade agreement with Siam (45 years remaining)
3) Trade agreement with Ethiopia (10 years remaining)
4) Alliance with Ethiopia (10 years remaining)
5) Alliance with Spain
6) Trade agreement with Persia (20 years remaining)

ECONOMY:
Receive 1 EP as a loan from the Pope, giving us 6 total to spend.
1). 2 points into navy, recruiting 10 Squadrons (9>19 Squadrons)
2). 2 points into recruiting 16 Divisions, almost all of which are pikemen and mixed arms.
3). 1 point into overseas army upkeep. NOTE: Apparently we are automatically paying 1 point for support of 4 divisions overseas. Adding one more point gives us support for 20 divisions, which is how many we will have overseas this turn.
4). 1 point to establishment of military support system in the Indian Ocean. See DOMESTIC ORDERS ITEM 1

DOMESTIC ORDERS:
1) Establish a support network for our military in the Indian Ocean. In order to maintain our presence in the Indian Ocean, we must develop support facilities. Construct major shipyards at Socotra, Zanzibar, and Cochin. There should be some form of shipyard in these places, so it shouldn't be too difficult to make them suitable for our vessels. This will allow our navy to refit in the Indian Ocean without having to return to Portugal, which should greatly reduce casualties. Also establish major supply depots in those areas. Establish smaller refitting and resupply areas at our various African enclaves. These should be suitable for making minor repairs, on the way to our major depots, and should ease transit between east and west. In addition, try to negotiate with native rulers to allow our ships to resupply in their ports. The goal is to allow our military to operate in the Indian Ocean more or less indefinitely, without suffering the attrition that plagued us last turn. Year: throughout


FOREIGN AFFAIRS:
1) Sign a 20 year trade agreement with Persia. Year: 1511
2) Send emissaries to the Barbary Corsairs, to try to get them on our side. Egyptian expansion in North Africa is a clear indication that the Egyptians intend to subjugate these states. Their next move would clearly be to eliminate piracy in that area. We have no such intentions. Try to play on these fears. In addition, make it clear that we will be willing to overlook past indiscretions if they aid us now. Try to convince some of them to attack the Egyptians, or at least close their ports to Egyptians naval vessels. Year: throughout
3) Attempt to divert the course of the Nile. The Blue Nile contributes the majority of the water that reaches Egypt. The source of the river is controlled by our Ethiopian allies. The economy of Egypt is completely dependent on the Nile, so if we can greatly reduce the flow of the river, or foul the waters, they will be devastated. The Ethiopians have a great deal of cheap labour, which we can use to build dams, dykes and other works to alter the course of the river. In addition, at the point where the Nile leaves Ethiopia, clog the river with the corpses of livestock, rotting fish, excrement, etc.(OOC: Strange little idea, I know, and probably not possible, but I couldn't resist.) Year: 1510-13
4) Dispatch explorers up the Niger, to make contact with Mali. Year: 1512


ESPIONAGE POLICY:
1) Continue expansion of intelligence network in Europe. In Spain, try to cultivate Aragonese nobles and merchants; Aragonese are suspicious of Castile, so it should be easy to recruit informants and sleeper agents. In France, continue cultivating agents in the courts of the great magnates. Likewise in Germany and Italy, where we should also exploit fear of French aggression. In the Kalmar Union, infiltrate the various nationalist groups, and very subtly and carefully encourage nationalist tendencies. In addition, begin recruiting among the expatriate community in Portugal. Due to our position as a commercial powerhouse, there will doubtless be many poor foreigners in Lisbon, who will leap at the chance to make money by working for our intelligence service; national loyalty is thin in this age. Also, have our merchants in foreign ports keep an eye out for suspicious activity. Any attack on Portugal, or our interests, would be preceded by the stockpiling of massive amounts of supplies, which would hopefully be visible to our men, if they look closely enough, giving us some warning. Year: throughout
2) Continue expansion of intelligence network in India and Africa. In India, try to cultivate the native princes, particularly in the Deccan sultanates. Try to gain as much influence as possible over them. In addition, try to recruit among the Hindu leadership. In Africa, put agents, both secret and official, in the courts of the leaders of the coastal city states, and begin trying to influence them towards us. Year: throughout

MILITARY POLICY:
1) Commission commerce raiders to prey on Muslim shipping. In this period, there is little difference between trade and piracy; most practitioners of the one engage in a spot of the other at some point. With the protection and support of the greatest naval powers in the world, commerce raiding should be particularly attractive at the moment. In addition to sanctioning already existing raiders, build heavily armed trading vessels, and dispense them, on the condition that the Crown of Portugal receives most of the loot. Year: throughout
2) Declare open season on Egyptian merchant shipping. Any ship flying the Egyptian colours is a target. All of our ships, including our merchantmen, should attack any Egyptian ship whenever they have an advantage. Year: 1510
3) Board and examine all ships of neutral nations passing to or from Egyptian ports. The Egyptians may try to move their goods by flying false flags, or by sending them on the ships of other nations. To prevent this, any ship suspected of being Egyptian or of carrying Egyptian goods is to be boarded. Any Egyptian crew that flies a false flag is to be summarily executed, and their ship taken for Portugal. Any Egyptian goods discovered on board the ship of another nation are to be impounded immediately. If we discover war materiel, such as cannon, guns, warship grade lumber, etc. headed for Egypt, it is to be impounded. We cannot tolerate our friends fueling the Egyptian war machine. The overall goal of these two programs is to bring Egyptian overseas commerce to a complete halt. Year: throughout

MILITARY OPERATIONS:
Overall goals for the turn, in order of importance.
1) Retake Ceuta
2) Take Aden
3) Seize control of the Red Sea
4) Destroy Egyptian commerce
5) Take Suez
6) Destroy Cairo
7) Conduct raids against Egypt
8) Take Aqaba


A note on naval operations: Within the Mediterranean, the Mediterranean system of naval warfare, galleys and so forth, was actually superior to the Atlantic system in this period. Fortunately, the Egyptians are unaware of this fact, and have leapt to adopt the Atlantic system. They have only just begun to construct galleons, while we have a centuries old naval tradition, so we should have a significant edge in ship quality. Moreover, all their captains will be converted galley commanders, and will be unaware of the intricacies of handling a galleon, so we should have a significant edge in leadership as well. We should use these advantages as far as possible. In particular, their commanders may not be aware of the importance of wind in combat between sailing ships.

A note on tactics: Ideally, we will fight battles in tight formations of pikes and arquebusiers, with our navy and siege train providing covering fire. The Egyptian cavalry will have to charge into a solid mass of steel and lead, which should lead to them being slaughtered. If the cavalry is unable to be effective, the Egyptian melee infantry will be of little use against us. While these tactics are largely defensive, we anticipate that the Egyptians will usually have little choice but to attack us. Most of our battles will be sieges close to the sea. If they refuse to attack us, we can simply continue to pound their fortresses into dust with our cannon, while allowing the Egyptian forces to starve. In addition, the proximity of the sea grants our siege train greater mobility than in land warfare, which should allow us to make better use of it in battles than is normally possible.

Ceuta

Assigned forces: 3 Squadrons, 3 Divisions
Commander: Tristao da Cunha

Year: 1510. Establish a blockade of Ceuta. With the Spanish occupying the Egyptians in the Mediterranean, there should be few enemy forces in the area. Prevent all supplies from reaching them, and let them grow weaker throughout the year. Land our forces to the south of the city, and besiege it. At the end of the year, encourage the populace to rise against the Egyptians and storm the city.
Year: 1511. Once the city falls, these forces should join Albuquerque on the other side of Africa, taking with them supplies, particularly heavy cannon and lumber. Along the way, they should establish a fort and supply depot at the Cape of Good Hope. Combined with our other enclaves in Africa, this should greatly ease transit between Portugal and the east.


East Africa

Initially assigned forces: 16 Squadrons, 13 Divisions
Eventually rising to: 19 Sqadrons, 20 Divisions
Commanders: Afonso da Albuquerque, Admiral of the fleet and overall commander of the expedition; Lorenço da Almeida, nephew of the Viceroy and commander of land forces

Year: 1510. Assemble at Socotra, and make preparations for the campaign: bring in supplies, conduct reconaissance, etc. From the island, keep a close watch on the Gulf of Aden. We expect Egypt will attempt to mount some sort of offensive operation in this sector, either against Socotra or Zanzibar, so our men should be prepared to intercept and destroy any expedition. Hopefully, the Egyptian fleet will come out to fight, where we can easily crush it. If it doesn't come out for some reason, try to draw it out. Any Egyptian ships that leave the Red Sea are to be attacked and destroyed. This includes all of their commerce with India. In particular, make sure that supply ships to Madagascar do not get through. Late in the year, dispatch a ship or two to deal with their base on that island. Isolated, and without supplies, they should be weak. Encourage the natives to attack, and drive the intruders into the sea. At the same time, our ships should bombard the settlement. Hopefully, it will be easily destroyed. Salvage whatever we can from the wreckage, then leave the Egyptians to the tender mercies of the islanders.
Year: 1511. Assuming that the Egyptian fleet has been neutralized as an offensive force, and our holdings in the area are secure, withdraw the 4 Divisions that were left on garrison from last turn, and fold them into the main army, giving us a total of 17 Divisions. Very early in the year, move into the Red Sea, and establish a blockade of Aden. Put a large section of army ashore outside of the city to establish a siege as well. Meanwhile, the fleet should try to find and destroy the Egyptian fleet. If they run and hide in port, let them stay there. The point is to have absolute freedom of movement within the sea. Ships should be regularly rotated out to Socotra, or the Ethiopian ports, to maintain them in fighting trim. Sometime in the middle of the year, Cunha's force will arrive and reinforce us, bringing our total strength to 19 Squadrons and 20 Divisions.
Year: 1512. By this point the Egyptians in Aden have been under siege for a year, and should be quite weak. From land, reduce the forts guarding the port with siege cannon. With the port open, the fleet should begin bombarding the town, while our land forces assault from the other side. Hopefully, the city will fall easily. As the Egyptians are using galleon replicas now, Aden should have significant shipyards that that will be suitable for our ships. In addition, there will hopefully be significant amounts of lumber and war materiel seized. Once Aden is under our control, reconstruct the forts guarding the harbour, and move on. The next phase of our operation is to begin harassing Egyptian holdings in the northern Red Sea. Bombard ports, burn towns, and conduct reconnaissance for further expeditions.
Year: 1513. Time for a major incursion into Egypt. Most of the Egyptian forces in the area should be preoccupied with the Spanish attack, making things much easier for us. Sail most of our force to the head of the Gulf of Suez, and a lesser segment to the head of the Gulf of Aqaba; the precise amounts depend on Egyptian dispositions, and the commanders on the ground will have to decide what is appropriate. If possible, the Aqaba force should press to the Mediterranean, where it will link up with the Spanish fleet and resupply. Combined with our control of the the Red Sea, this will sever communications between the eastern and western segments of Egypt. If this is not possible, or the Spanish fleet is not in control of the eastern Mediterranean, the Aqaba force should fortify Aqaba. The major force should press from Suez to Cairo. Again, most of the enemy forces should be away. If we take the city, burn it to the ground and then retreat back to Suez. By destroying the Egyptian capital, we will hopefully severely disrupt their ability to make war. If we can't reach Cairo, wreak as much havoc as possible in the area before withdrawing to Suez. In particular, try to destroy irrigation systems.
Year: 1514. Fortify Suez, and if possible the line from Gaza to Aqaba. If not possible, just fortify Aqaba. Bring supplies into those cities, and let our men relax as far as possible. Suez is the major Egyptian port on the Red Sea, and should have significant port facilities, which we should get fully operational as fast as possible. The fleet should have accomplished its missions by this point, and can refit and resupply. Whenever possible, they should do so at Suez or Zanzibar, but if necessary or expedient they can return to Portugal.

OPERATIONAL MAP:


CONTINGENCY: There is a possibility that the Spanish will betray us. It would be unbelievably stupid and completely out of character, but we must consider the possibility. If Spain does attack us, the following plan should be used.

ECONOMY:
Disband our overseas forces, freeing up an additional EP that would have gone to overseas upkeep. This gives us 7 EP total.
1) 5 points on recruiting 40 Divisions
2) 2 points on Army Quality (Recruits>Professional)

MILITARY ORDERS:

Deploy all forces in Portugal proper.

At the outset of war, try to raise an uproar in Spain over the Spanish monarch's betrayal of a Christian nation in favour of heathens. Hopefully we can induce the pious Spanish nobility to revolt against their king.

We expect that the main Spanish advance will be down the Tagus towards Lisbon. Initially, we should allow them to advance, presenting only minimal resistance. Hopefully, they will be overconfident and will advance recklessly. While they are advancing, we will be constructing a massive series of fortifications some distance to the east of Lisbon. When they reach that line we will defend it strongly and stop their advance cold. Meanwhile, attack from the flanks, and try to cut the Spanish supply lines and surround their army. Once they are surrounded, besiege them. Hit them with siege cannon and let them starve until they surrender. Once that happens, begin to advance into Spain. Head slowly towards Madrid.
 
I agree. Colonization is a pain. It requires too much investment compared to the profit, people love to rebel in it, and in the long term, it is likely not going to be yours unless it is near your core regions. That is why, as the HRE, I focused pretty much solely on Europe.

Though, annexing colonial powers usually gave me alot of territory.

Some overseas non-settler colonies were quite profitable - OTL South Africa, East Indies, India, the Phillipines, European chinese bases and New Spain (at first) were all worthwhile ventures its just that you need years of development to turn a profit, and by then all kinds of wars will have kicked in thanks to crazy backstabbing NESers.

You just need to avoid colonies that are for pride or the sake of having them (basically whatever France did OTL re: colonies was a bad idea ;), where they only turned a profit in Algeria).

Additionally nearly all NES with their plain economy stat and/or ECs are unable to show the value of colonial resources to homeland industry and the value of captive markets like Britain in south america or the postwar South in the US.

Secondly settler colonies will actually stick by the homeland till you screw up (see Britian annoying the Americans in the 1700s and Canada and Australia in WWI). Unless you have some crazy NESer get around of course ;).
 
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