The end of Civ3 is now here.

I have no doubt the Civ4 community will eventually have better mods and playability than Civ3. It just won't be until at least a year before that happens. And no one will be able to rival my Civ3 mods! :P
 
I agree with Bjornlo.

Sure, I've already tweaked some stuff in the XML files, and have already painted a couple of skins. However, what CivIV limits any of us to do at this point, is not very impressive in regards to creativity, at least concerning units.

Only when the SDK comes out, will we know the full scope of moddibility of CivIV.
 
SOG, at the moment, I am in the process of improving my previously released units. I am implementing a new way of rendering my units to get the best results possible. However, this a much longer process. I am rendering in different layers. Doing this, should eliminate more than 90% of the problem pixels that would surround my units, specifically, my warships. These would be the blinking pixels you may or may not have noticed surrounding my ships. These problem pixels, don't seem to show up as drastically on my few land and air units. I believe the pixels contrast more with the blue of the ocean tiles than the colors of the land tiles. Anyway, I want to release my improved units in blocks of 2-4 units at a time. Currently, I am finishing up the Kirov Battlecruiser. The first set of improved ship units will be the WWII Iowa Battleship, the Modern Iowa Battleship, the Kirov Battlecruiser, and probably the Sverdlov Light Cruiser. Hopefully, I will get them out next week some time. I have a WIP as well, the Russian Kresta I/II missile cruiser. I may hop on that, to take a break from rerendering my units, at least for a little while.

I will stick with Civ3 for quite a while yet. I just wanted to check out Civ4's mod features...which are almost non-existent in regards to the units. (as Bjornlo put it, changing unit stats is not modding)
Also, as I said before, I'm just not impressed with the 3D graphics. I mean, sure you can zoom in and rotate the camera around the units, but what's the big deal with being able to zoom in on blocky, somewhat ugly units. The modern destroyer and battleship appall me the most. However, some of the units aren't too bad looking. Of course, some new skinning will help, but only to a degree.
 
I agree. I've... I've lost all hope of ever getting my mod done...

But, you know what woulpd spark a wave of hope? A Kinboat unit.

But the thing to remember is as long as they sell civ three at wall mart for 10 bucks there will be players and modders. And with Civ 3 complete coming out for Mac soon.. well, thats good as well.

Its the creators, man, all of the great ones.. we just haven't seen in ages.. DPII, bebro, ripptide, CamJH....

*sigh*
 
whine whine whine :^p
 
Bjornlo said:
The problem with your theory is two fold.
The first is ignorance the second is arrogance.

Ignorance: Open source and moddable are not the same. Moddable and difficult are not related. It could have been completely open and easily approachable. Especially the units, which will require special high-end software (Gamebryo requires 3d studio max or Maya). Similarly shipping it without even a rudimentary editor is nothing but false advertising. The game says on the box it is the most modifiable version yet... strange, Conquests had the ability to add units, and replace every graphic in the game right out of the box. What it should have said was that SOME of the rules are modifiable with expert knowledge of XML & Python, but the graphics are not. Yes, some small amount of reskinning of pre-existing meshes can be done by expanding the art using the later bug fix info for ATI video cards, but this is not modabilty, and has nothing to do with their on the box claims

Arrogance: Fewer mods does not equal better mods. This is elitist crap. Fewer mods is just fewer mods. Excluding many of the bright minds who were active contributors to some of the finest add-ons in Civ3 just because they either don't know XML & Python or because they don't have the time or money to spend 1000's on software in no way leads to better mods. There is no correlation between being rich and making good units. Nor is there any correlation between the ability to program and the ability to design a good mod.
Click to expand...

Wow... It seems that cynicism doesn't correlate very well textually. What I should have elaborated on was that is what some game developers have said about some of their games in their forum. My post above was how I would personally say is the "gist" of what they claim their game can do.

Forgive my ignorance on the subject; but as I have just said it was what I was lead to believe based upon what several different game developers have claimed.

P.S. Did I personally offend you somehow to incur such a vehement response, or is it some underlying disgust and disappointment with Firaxis claim to Civ4? Just purely curious I mean no disrespect by it. Just value a person who obviously has vastly superior knowledge on the subject. ;)
 
Gaias said:
P.S. Did I personally offend you somehow to incur such a vehement response, or is it some underlying disgust and disappointment with Firaxis claim to Civ4? Just purely curious I mean no disrespect by it. Just value a person who obviously has vastly superior knowledge on the subject. ;)
Click to expand...
No you did not personally offend me. I do not think my response was that vehement. I stand by my reply as blunt but accurate. It was a clear and accurate rebuttal to your statements. If you had intended it as cynicism or were not stating your views, but paraphrasing someone else's, it might have been useful to indicate that. For example: "It seems that the developer position must be ...." If you present views as your own, and opinions as fact it is not unreasonable to assume that it is your own position that you are presenting.
 
Bjornlo said:
The game says on the box it is the most modifiable version yet... strange, Conquests had the ability to add units, and replace every graphic in the game right out of the box.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure this is entirely true. While when Conquests was released it was possable to mod units, none of this was "out of the box" - the abilty to edit unit graphics was done soley by the modding community, and Firaxis have released NO tools for modding units. Civ 4 is exactly the same, except we haven't quite figured out how to mod units yet.

Although I am rather confused as to why they had to hide away all the art files like they did. Seems odd - and I would have to agree that the graphics of Civ 4 were much less moddable than in Civ 3, though I feel we have a much greater scope for rules changes.

As for Civ 3 modding being easy in comparison to Civ 4 modding - from what I've seen it looks the other way around. I could never get the hang of the editor for Civ 3 - it was just far to cumbersome and time consuming, and you still had to know what you were doing with those text files.

Civ 4 just has text files, each has a purpose, and most are quite easy to understand. I seems to me to be much clearer (although, I admit, I don't have the game yet, so can't really judge).
 
Bjornlo said:
No you did not personally offend me. I do not think my response was that vehement. I stand by my reply as blunt but accurate. It was a clear and accurate rebuttal to your statements. If you had intended it as cynicism or were not stating your views, but paraphrasing someone else's, it might have been useful to indicate that. For example: "It seems that the developer position must be ...." If you present views as your own, and opinions as fact it is not unreasonable to assume that it is your own position that you are presenting.
Click to expand...

The problem with your analysis of my "statement" is that I gave no indication that this was my personal view or that I was stating them as fact. What I wrote is to generalised and to be percieved as a subjective opinion. At best it was an uniformed statement taking out of context. Had I used "I believe this to be..."' or "This is my personal understanding of the subject" would lead on to believe that I hold such facts in regards. Your conterstatement about "Ignorace" I can live with, but where you do you "Arrogance" from? I really don't see a exact statement saying "This is the way it is and anyone that refutes me is WRONG!!!". Please show me I do wish to know where it is?
 
Sword_Of_Geddon said:
I wonder if Firaxis rushed the release of Civ4. Maybe they should have waited a few months to perfect everything and get rid of all the bugs, plus put in a decent editor. In fact, I really think that is what they should have done.
Click to expand...
There's this little thing called economics that get in the way...
Besides, they had to get it out before Christmas.

SoG, stop being such a doom monger. Civ 3 is not dead, it just smells funny. :p
 
Bah! Youany bearing to the subject. My ignorance got the best of me. :p

But you are most definitely right when you state it was extremely poor judgement on the part of Firaxis to market the game as "the most moddable game on the planet" yet not give the tools to the modder, ie. yourself, to allow them to mod the game. Wasn't that a significant part of the selling point ofr Civ4? At least I thought it was...
 
The people who got it only liked the graphics. Since Civ4 had a lot less content than Civ3, and the Graphics will only slow things down. They begin to realize how much it sucks. They will restart playing Civ3! :D

I never liked the graphics on Civ4, anyway.
 
Gaias said:
The problem with your analysis of my "statement" is that I gave no indication that this was my personal view or that I was stating them as fact. What I wrote is to generalised and to be percieved as a subjective opinion. At best it was an uniformed statement taking out of context. Had I used "I believe this to be..."' or "This is my personal understanding of the subject" would lead on to believe that I hold such facts in regards. Your conterstatement about "Ignorace" I can live with, but where you do you "Arrogance" from? I really don't see a exact statement saying "This is the way it is and anyone that refutes me is WRONG!!!". Please show me I do wish to know where it is?
Click to expand...
What utter nonsense. The more you prevaricate the less inclined I am to bother with a reply. Or are you still quoting mysterious people and don't own your own comments?

You open your mouth (or write things) and words come out. It is reasonable to assume those are your words, unless you say otherwise. If you wrote to the president and said 'die you warmonger so&so', the secret service would come to your house kick in your door and maybe your teeth.... and you'd be stuck in custody trying to explain how you were quoting, but not attributing someone else.

Arrogance is the exact nature of the foolish drivel you were spouting/quoting. That less is more and that the "less" you will be stuck with will be better because all the chaff will be cast aside. This form of elitism is a prime example of arrogance.

I'm doing you the favor in this reply and assuming you're being sincere in your claims, despite the obvious credibility questions some of your claims raise.

Short version: Reasonable people assume that words you say are your own. If you are quoting someone, say so. So while your comments reflected ignorance and arrogance, I will grant you that neither epitaph seems to reflect your character (based on your other posts). If you don't understand something I've said ask me in a PM and we can discuss it. To be fair, your comments, were not new to me. I might have been harsher then I would otherwise have been had I not heard the similar nonsense for days on end.
 
Fox Mccloud said:
The people who got it only liked the graphics. Since Civ4 had a lot less content than Civ3, and the Graphics will only slow things down. They begin to realize how much it sucks. They will restart playing Civ3! :D

I never liked the graphics on Civ4, anyway.
Click to expand...
It is a good game. I own it and don't hate it. But I prefer Civ3.
 
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