2020 US Election (Part 3)

[Takhisis]

You notice that Republicans are not questioning the results of the Senate and House races in this election...I wonder why that might be?

Remember, Republicans win so the only wrong votes are the ones that shouldn't be counted.

Does that makes ense?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Are any Republicans talking about the virus? I know our three cfc Trump lovers aren't. I'm surprised that they are so accepting of a quarter million American dead in 10 months and another thousand daily since the election. I thought they had more respect for life.

 

[Traitorfish]

Though a bit more seriously: Whatever goes well, Trump takes full credit for. Whatever goes bad, he takes not responsibility whatsoever. Nothing new here.

Not even that: whatever goes bad is the product of dark and malevolent forces working to undermine the big beautiful president.

There's a sort of cunning to it: not only does it allow him to offer some sort of response when things go wrong, it's a response that forces his supporters to invest ever-more deeply into his personality-cult, that transforms his bumbling and ineptness into an even more compelling reason to support him.

 

[r16]

variants are God's Will and nature of the things . New Turkey never fails so if it is bad , whatever suits is pushed forward . A mining event with 302 deaths was compared to something worse during Queen Victoria's reign , because such things happen in mining .

 

[onejayhawk]

Nice attempt at handwaving a question. I still asked you something.

Then be clearer.

I remember the stellar leadership from Trump on this issue for the last four years. His near-decade of constantly screaming about voter fraud really prepared him with a toolkit of solutions once he got the bully pulpit.

Trump has had stellar leadership, but it generally was not found in his tweets.

I mean we already know we can basically just assume the opposite of all your assertions and be closer to the truth then any of your actual assertions but this one in particular demands correction. NORC found that with a full statewide hand recount, Gore would have won Florida under every possible vote standard. Depending on which standard was used, his margin of victory would have varied from 60 to 171 votes. The recount was paid for by a consortium of news outlets — CNN, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Tribune Company, the Washington Post, the Associated Press, the St. Petersburg Times, and the Palm Beach Post. But this was just two months after the September 11 terrorist attacks. The outlets patriotically buried the blockbuster news that George W. Bush was not the legitimate president of the United States.

All I will say is that a it is not possible to view the evidence and reach that conclusion.

Nonsense. Kerry got just over 59 million votes in 2004. Obama got over 69 million in 2008, an increase of over 10 million. Ronald Reagan got 43.9 million in 1980 and over 54 million in 1984, another 10 million plus increase, so that completely shatters the premise of your argument. There's nothing "suspicious" about a party getting a 10 million vote swing. Its happened for both a Republican and Democratic POTUS. Plus, over 10 million of the 17 million you cite went to Trump. You're not calling Trump's votes fraud, and he got a bigger share of the increase. Your argument is completely illogical.

2016 was a record number of votes for Republicans. Democrats hit their record number in 2008. More importantly, the difference between what the highest ever Republican total is currently (73,146,311 for Trump currently) and the highest Republican total was previously (62,984,828 for Trump in 2016), 10,161,483 votes... is a higher number than the same for Democrats (currently 78,712,210 for Biden minus 69,498,516 for Obama 2008), 9,243,694 votes. So since the Republicans record high isn't suspicious, the Democrats record high isn't either.

I'm confused. What are you trying to argue with Kerry and Obama?

2016 had a record total vote of 137 MM. An increase of 17 MM on top of a record is odd and worth a closer look

 

[El_Machinae]

Trump has had stellar leadership, but it generally was not found in his tweets.

That explains why the confidence regarding the election process is so high, because he knew what he was doing before he came in, and really helped scrub away the problems he knew about.

 

[Birdjaguar]

...Trump has had stellar leadership, but it generally was not found in his tweets....

For sure. 250,000 dead, 70,000 hospitalized, 1000 more dying daily. Great leadership. Or don't those deaths count when measured against kidnapping children, giving the rich more money, filling the government with corrupt officials, lying every day, personally benefiting from being President? Please which of his great accomplishments tops killing 250,000 people?

 

[Gorbles]

2016 had a record total vote of 137 MM. An increase of 17 MM on top of a record is odd and worth a closer look

Why? Because you say so?

 

[Kyriakos]

For sure. 250,000 dead, 70,000 hospitalized, 1000 more dying daily. Great leadership. Or don't those deaths count when measured against kidnapping children, giving the rich more money, filling the government with corrupt officials, lying every day, personally benefiting from being President? Please which of his great accomplishments tops killing 250,000 people?

Trump didn't kill those people, regardless of this having now become a chant. I am curious as to what the argument would be against his US policy, had coronavirus not happened.
I want to hope Biden will do something positive, but I am not optimistic. And I allude to how likely it is he will not change stuff the dem people asked Trump to change.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

For sure. 250,000 dead, 70,000 hospitalized, 1000 more dying daily. Great leadership. Or don't those deaths count when measured against kidnapping children, giving the rich more money, filling the government with corrupt officials, lying every day, personally benefiting from being President? Please which of his great accomplishments tops killing 250,000 people?

Nothing trump does will ever make @onejayhawk reconsider his support, be that admitting to wanting to molest women and children or his crimes against the American people during his term

 

[Birdjaguar]

Trump didn't kill those people, regardless of this having now become a chant. I am curious as to what the argument would be against his US policy, had coronavirus not happened.
I want to hope Biden will do something positive, but I am not optimistic. And I allude to how likely it is he will not change stuff the dem people asked Trump to change.

First, there is no "what if there was no pandemic". If youwant to change the rules to make the situation better, why not assume: what if there was no Trump? Trump is POTUS and his oath of office makes him the guy in charge. Now, certainly all those people who followed Trump's lead and refused to wear masks or social distance do bear blame for killing their friends and neighbors, but they were sticking by their man in the WH. He could have influenced their behavior, but choose not to because he was afraid he would lose the election if tried to contain the virus. Funny how that worked out.

By Jan 2020, the virus was a known event. Its seriousness was a known. Trump choose a particular course of action and inaction and once on that path he never changed course. the blame is his. He had the knowledge, resources, and bully pulpit to change the course of events. He choose poorly.

• Virus will magically disappear
• No masks needed
• No social distancing needed
• No national plan needed
• No leadership
• Each state could do as they pleased
• He rewarded Republican led states and punished Democrat ones
• He promoted fake cures rather than what worked elsewhere
• He repeated the same themes through three every worsening waves
• As the third wave got worse, he stopped talking about it as any kind of national priority
• Held super spreader events as part of his political campaign
• Still promoting herd immunity

Like Obama in 2009, Biden is faced with a gargantuan Republican failure to fix.

 

[El_Machinae]

That explains why the confidence regarding the election process is so high, because he knew what he was doing before he came in, and really helped scrub away the problems he knew about.

Okay, I'll pull away the sardonic jibe.

Can you link a reputable article that discusses what leadership Trump has shown with regards to tackling the 'election fraud' issues that he's been highlighting for years?
You have a minimum threshold to meet in order to show that there's been leadership. It's not fair that "I'll know it when I see it", but remember that this is your guy.

 

[uppi]

I remember the stellar leadership from Trump on this issue for the last four years. His near-decade of constantly screaming about voter fraud really prepared him with a toolkit of solutions once he got the bully pulpit.

Good point.

Let's assume for a second there was voter fraud.
Trump was the president.
He claimed to know about this for a long time
He had a government stuffed with loyalists.
The Senate was Republican-controlled.
He had access to the most powerful intelligence and law enforcement services in the world.
Many of the state governments were at least partly controlled by Republicans.
And yet he is unable to present a single piece of voter fraud?

The sheer incompetence of a government that would let such a scenario happen would be astonishing - even for Trump. Any banana republic dictator could do better than this.

 

[Gorbles]

https://twitter.com/AmyEGardner/status/1328464861454622721

SCOOP: Ga. SoS Raffensperger says Sen. Lindsey Graham pressured him to toss legal ballots.

Hey whaddya know, more projection from Republicans! Who knew!

 

[onejayhawk]

For sure. 250,000 dead, 70,000 hospitalized, 1000 more dying daily. Great leadership. Or don't those deaths count when measured against kidnapping children, giving the rich more money, filling the government with corrupt officials, lying every day, personally benefiting from being President? Please which of his great accomplishments tops killing 250,000 people?

Nothing trump does will ever make @onejayhawk reconsider his support, be that admitting to wanting to molest women and children or his crimes against the American people during his term

Certainly not that particular lie.

Let's assume for a second there was voter fraud.
Trump was the president. So? It's not in his purview.
He claimed to know about this for a long time There has been discussion since the California results in 2016.
He had a government stuffed with loyalists. And?
The Senate was Republican-controlled. Again, so what?
He had access to the most powerful intelligence and law enforcement services in the world. This is getting monotonous. What relevance?
Many of the state governments were at least partly controlled by Republicans. Those states had a quick count and no problems.
And yet he is unable to present a single piece of voter fraud? There are thousands of instances. However, the computer software issue has the capacity to generate or alter millions of votes.

The sheer incompetence of a government that would let such a scenario happen would be astonishing - even for Trump. Any banana republic dictator could do better than this.

It is ironic that this is a state rights issue that is biting conservatives in the ass. Regardless, the Executive branch has no say in how the states laws are written and very little in how they are enforced.

So, if we assume there is voter fraud, what can be done about it? Who has standing? What of transparency? We have hundreds of reports of count observers not being allowed to observe. If there is fraud, who is responsible for uncovering it? Is there any reason to think that person would cover up issues instead of exposing them? How would we know if there was a coverup?

Those are more pertinent questions.

J

 

[Sommerswerd]

Certainly not that particular lie.


It is ironic that this is a state rights issue that is biting conservatives in the ass. Regardless, the Executive branch has no say in how the states laws are written and very little in how they are enforced.

So, if we assume there is voter fraud, what can be done about it? Who has standing? What of transparency? We have hundreds of reports of count observers not being allowed to observe. If there is fraud, who is responsible for uncovering it? Is there any reason to think that person would cover up issues instead of exposing them? How would we know if there was a coverup?

Those are more pertinent questions.

J

None of those questions are pertinent because there is no widespread vote fraud.

The allegations of vote fraud are nothing but a strategic campaign to: 1) pay Trumps campaign debts by soliciting donations from his supporters, 2) keep Trump relevant after he leaves office as the standard bearer of grievance and 3) retain Trump's high media profile to springboard him into heading a conservative media network to compete with FOX News.

Aaand as if on queue... FOX News (Brett Baier) just announced that a Federal Immigration Judge has just invalidated the Trump administrations attempted cancellation of DACA.

 

[Gori the Grey]

The allegations of vote fraud are nothing but a strategic campaign to: 1) pay Trumps campaign debts by soliciting donations from his supporters, 2) keep Trump relevant after he leaves office as the standard bearer of grievance and 3) retain Trump's high media profile to springboard him into heading a conservative media network to compete with FOX News.

and 4) soothe Trump's bruised ego

 

[Sommerswerd]

I'm confused. What are you trying to argue with Kerry and Obama?

Of course you are. That's how cognitive dissonance works. Everyone else seems to understand just fine, so I'll give you time to work things out on your own. The TL;DR is your argument makes no sense and has been debunked. Take as long as you need to work out your "confusion".

 

[Gori the Grey]

if we assume there is voter fraud, what can be done about it?

Join the rest of us in not making such an assumption?

Who's your "we"?

 

[Birdjaguar]

you wrote:

..Trump has had stellar leadership, but it generally was not found in his tweets

After which I wrote:

For sure. 250,000 dead, 70,000 hospitalized, 1000 more dying daily. Great leadership. Or don't those deaths count when measured against kidnapping children, giving the rich more money, filling the government with corrupt officials, lying every day, personally benefiting from being President? Please which of his great accomplishments tops killing 250,000 people?

You answered:

Certainly not that particular lie.

I do not understand. None of what I wrote is a lie. (if you think some are, please point out which ones). I was asking you for which of Trump's actions reflect his stellar leadership. Please post your list.