New leader elimination

[Kimiimaro]

Thomas Jefferson 13
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 11
Juscelino Kubitschek 10
King Wu of Zhou 4
Yongle 14+1=15 - Naval China? Count me in!
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 8
Shivaji 14
Meiji 13
Kanmu 11
Alvaro I 4
Eric Bloodaxe 10-3=7 - I'm against another Viking leader of Norway.
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 21
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso II 12
Ur-Nammu 21
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[RFormica]

Thomas Jefferson 13
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 11
Juscelino Kubitschek 10
King Wu of Zhou 4
Yongle 15
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 8
Shivaji 14
Meiji 13
Kanmu 11
Alvaro I 4 - 3 = 1 Same as all else.
Eric Bloodaxe 7
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 21 + 1 = 22 Should I start making Constantine, Yongle and Ur-Nammu already?
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso II 12
Ur-Nammu 21
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[God of Kings]

Thomas Jefferson 13
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 11
Juscelino Kubitschek 10
King Wu of Zhou 4
Yongle 15 + 1 = 16 Naval China would be interesting; he also commissioned the world's largest print encyclopedia pre-Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yongle_Encyclopedia
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 8
Shivaji 14
Meiji 13
Kanmu 11
Alvaro I 1 - 3 = ELIMINATED Not interesting
Eric Bloodaxe 7
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 22
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso II 12
Ur-Nammu 21
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[Morningcalm]

Thomas Jefferson 13
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 11 + 1 = 12 (A capable and expansionist Aztec leader who was very successful at intimidating neighbors and gaining access to new luxuries.)
Juscelino Kubitschek 10
King Wu of Zhou 4
Yongle 16
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 8
Shivaji 14
Meiji 13 - 3 = 10 (From what I can recall, this guy will never make it into the game in person due to Japanese beliefs about representations of the emperor, and frankly it would be weird for him to lead Japan when the civ ability already bears his name.)
Kanmu 11
Eric Bloodaxe 7
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 22
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso II 12
Ur-Nammu 21
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[Guandao]

Thomas Jefferson 13
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek (10+1)=11 He seems decent enough to be a 20th century leader choice for Brazil.
King Wu of Zhou (4-3)=1 I find him a little too obscure compared to later emperors/kings
Yongle 16
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 8
Shivaji 14
Meiji 10
Kanmu 11
Eric Bloodaxe 7
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 22
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso II 12
Ur-Nammu 21
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[KoubaK]

Thomas Jefferson 13
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
King Wu of Zhou ELIMINATED!!! (1-3) ... Someone had to go!
Yongle 16
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 8
Shivaji 14
Meiji 10
Kanmu 11
Eric Bloodaxe 7
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 22
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso II 13 (12+1) ... I will give him a chance!
Ur-Nammu 21
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[Potato Based]

Meiji 13 - 3 = 10 (From what I can recall, this guy will never make it into the game in person due to Japanese beliefs about representations of the emperor, and frankly it would be weird for him to lead Japan when the civ ability already bears his name.)

This is thread is for choosing which leader RFormica will use in an alternate leader mod, not speculation on what Firaxis might add in as DLC. I don't believe he would have to follow these rules. I personally haven't heard of this taboo against using Japanese emperors, but I know Hirohito is represented in Hearts of Iron IV as the leader of Japan. I don't believe there were any issues with that. Also, the next CK2 dlc is Tibet focused and I haven't heard anything about China being against it. Maybe Paradox gets a free pass on this kind of thing? Who knows. I know a sizeable amount of Paradox is owned by Tencent (The Chinese company that owns League of Legends) so I would think they would have an issue with content that would supposedly be banned in their country, but apparently not.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Thomas Jefferson 13
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 16
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 8+1=9 - He was a competent leader and also the builder of Taj Mahal.
Shivaji 14
Meiji 10
Kanmu 11
Eric Bloodaxe 7-3=4 - No, I don't want another Viking leader.
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 22
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso II 13
Ur-Nammu 21
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[Potato Based]

Thomas Jefferson 13
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 16
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11 (10 + 1) He turned Japan into a great power by the 20th century.
Kanmu 11
Eric Bloodaxe 1 (4 - 3) I agree that another viking would be boring.
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 22
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso II 13
Ur-Nammu 21
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[Homusubi]

Thomas Jefferson 13
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 16
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11
Kanmu 12 More obscure Japanese leaders? Count me in.
Eric Bloodaxe 1
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 22
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Afonso II 10 If Kongo is going to get another leader, it shouldn't be another overly pro-Portugal one.
Ur-Nammu 21
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

Incidentally, imho people give Meiji more credit than he actually deserves. Think of him like the Victoria of Japan: he happened to be on the throne during an important period in Japanese history, but he didn't do much in terms of running the country. If you want a Meiji period Japanese leader I suggest Itō Hirobumi or another of the genrō (elder statesmen) from that period.

 

[God of Kings]

Thomas Jefferson 13
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 16 + 1 = 17 Same reason as last time
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11
Kanmu 12
Eric Bloodaxe 1 - 3 = ELIMINATED Eric Bloodaxe, meet bloody axe
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 22
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Afonso II 10
Ur-Nammu 21
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[Morningcalm]

This is thread is for choosing which leader RFormica will use in an alternate leader mod, not speculation on what Firaxis might add in as DLC. I don't believe he would have to follow these rules. I personally haven't heard of this taboo against using Japanese emperors, but I know Hirohito is represented in Hearts of Iron IV as the leader of Japan. I don't believe there were any issues with that. Also, the next CK2 dlc is Tibet focused and I haven't heard anything about China being against it. Maybe Paradox gets a free pass on this kind of thing? Who knows. I know a sizeable amount of Paradox is owned by Tencent (The Chinese company that owns League of Legends) so I would think they would have an issue with content that would supposedly be banned in their country, but apparently not.

Thanks for letting me know about the alternate leader mod angle. My points attacking Meiji as a choice remain.

The rule in question I refer to is the "Chrysanthemum taboo" preventing discussion or criticism of the emperor. While there are likely boundaries to that (i.e. simply mentioning him is unlikely to break the taboo, obviously), it creates a weird blockade Civ developers would need to expend extra effort to avoid. For the sake of simplicity we are likely to get non-emperor leaders for Japan in general. And I don't think Meiji sounds that cool for a leader anyway. His story is frankly a bit dull compared to the exciting lives of the daimyo.

Thomas Jefferson 13 - 3 = 10 (Meh. Overrated president with odious personal beliefs, had sex with a slave, etc. There are many better American leaders, and frankly this guy is among the most dull leaders on this list.)
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 17
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11
Kanmu 12
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 22
Yaroslav II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Afonso II 10
Ur-Nammu 21 + 1 = 22 (This guy's story is the stuff of epic legend, but he also created a huge empire, a very early legal code (which could make for a fun leader ability for policies), and was a successful conqueror who also fostered culture and was immensely popular with his subjects.)
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[Hamilton321]

Thomas Jefferson 10
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 10
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 17
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11
Kanmu 12
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 22+1=23 I would really love to see Constantine in civ
Yaroslavl II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso II 10-3=7 Didn't like him as much as the other leaders on the list
Ur-Nammu 22
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[Guandao]

Thomas Jefferson (10-3)=7 I thought he was quite the intellectual type, but he was a hypocrite. Nice house though.
James Monroe 12
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies (10+1)=11 A decent choice for an alternate Australian leader
Acamapichtli 10
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 17
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11
Kanmu 12
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 23
Yaroslavl II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso II 7 Which Alfonso II are we talking about here? He's definitely not a Kongolese King, more likely one of the kings of a Spanish kingdom
Ur-Nammu 22
Shapur II 11
Nader Shah 11

 

[RFormica]

(From what I can recall, this guy will never make it into the game in person due to Japanese beliefs about representations of the emperor, and frankly it would be weird for him to lead Japan when the civ ability already bears his name.)

This thread is for deciding which alternate leader mod I should make. If he wins, I hope I won't get in trouble with Japan...

Which Alfonso II are we talking about here? He's definitely not a Kongolese King, more likely one of the kings of a Spanish kingdom

The Spainish king. Actually Alfonso I, not II... mistake on my part.

Thomas Jefferson 7
James Monroe 12 + 1 = 13 My favorite president! Plus, it would be nice to implement Canals into the game. (Erie canal, specifically.)
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 11
Acamapichtli 10 - 3 = 7 Really only significant because he started the Aztec dynasty. Besides that, he really didn't do anything... (Sorry Acamapichtli. I had to downvote someone.)
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 17
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11
Kanmu 12
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 23
Yaroslavl II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso I 7 Just to be clear, the Spanish one.
Ur-Nammu 22
Shapur II 11

These are all good options! I don't want to downvote anyone...

 

[conorbebe]

Thomas Jefferson 4 (7 - 3) Wouldn't be my pick and it looks like he's going down anyway, although I am biased towards more iconic leaders.
James Monroe 13
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 11
Acamapichtli 7
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 18 (17 + 1) Great name.
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11
Kanmu 12
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 23
Yaroslavl II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso I 7
Ur-Nammu 22
Shapur II 11

 

[Kimiimaro]

Thomas Jefferson 4-3=1 - I'm not very interrested in another American leader.
James Monroe 13
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 11
Acamapichtli 7
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 18+1=19 - Naval China!
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11
Kanmu 12
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 23
Yaroslavl II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso I 7
Ur-Nammu 22
Shapur II 11

 

[RFormica]

Thomas Jefferson 1
James Monroe 13
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 11
Acamapichtli 7 - 3 = 4 Didn't really do anything
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 19 + 1 = 20 Two words. Naval. China. (Yongle, you're as good as Ur-Nammu and Constantine now! You're welcome!)
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11
Kanmu 12
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 23
Yaroslavl II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso I 7
Ur-Nammu 22
Shapur II 11

 

[Hamilton321]

Thomas Jefferson 1-3=-2 Eliminated Thomas Jefferson was a hypocrite and a worse president than Monroe
James Monroe 13
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 11
Acamapichtli 4
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 20+1=21 I Absolutely love the Ming and am very excited that one of the greatest emperors of the Ming is doing so well.
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 11
Kanmu 12
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 23
Yaroslavl II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso I 7
Ur-Nammu 22
Shapur II 11

 

[Homusubi]

James Monroe 13
Mu'awiya 9
Al-Mansur 10
Henry Parkes 12
Robert Menzies 11
Acamapichtli 4
Ahuitzotl 12
Juscelino Kubitschek 11
Yongle 21
Ramesses II 14
Khufu 11
Cardinal Richelieu 13
Henry IV 12
Shah Jahan 9
Shivaji 14
Meiji 8 I honestly don't understand why he's such a popular choice, to the extent that I actually have a plan for an Ito Hirobumi civ.
Kanmu 13 Not only is he a more interesting choice than Meiji (although he's not the early emperor I'd have picked), he actually ran the country, unlike Meiji.
Boleslaw I 14
Casimir III 11
Constantine 23
Yaroslavl II 10
Alexander Nevsky 12
Alfonso I 7
Ur-Nammu 22
Shapur II 11

Btw, re: the argument above about Meiji, I've never heard of the Chrysanthemum Taboo being invoked for any emperor other than the current emperor (Akihito) and the Showa emperor (Hirohito).

Oh, and to the Alfonso I fans out there: sorry for my -3 vote yesterday, I got him confused with Alvaro I of Kongo.